The Christian Metal Realm is a community made up largely of Christians who also happen to love heavy metal! You do not have to be a Christian to join, but you MUST be respectful. Home  FAQ  Search  Register  Log in   The Christian Metal Realm :: Beliefs and Hobbies :: The Study and Debating Realm  Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...     Goto page :   1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6   Author Message PeacethroughX Cool Mamma Jamma Age : 52 Joined : 11 Mar 2007 Posts : 261 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:29 pm Quote: Pick a side and stay with it! At Cracker Barrel, I got to choose THREE sides, and EVERYBODY was happy about it... _________________ "Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you— majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?" Exodus 15:11 http://www.achurchforthecity.org http://www.myspace.com/peacelovinghippie "I don't reject your Christ, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi   Orion Crystal Ice Rider of the Astral Fire Age : 22 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 3901 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:34 pm But the milk was probably outdated... _________________ Dark motions, black eyes, and mournful lust, the wings of solitude ...I'm the hateful raven I dream in shades of you.   Ashenvale A Mere Peasant Age : 29 Joined : 08 Dec 2007 Posts : 2494 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:38 pm VALEDICTION wrote: Quote: If there's anyone on this board who considers themselves neither Conservative or Liberal.. who accepts and rejects ideologies based on his own logic and studied conclusions, and doesn't just follow the sheep of the red or blue farmers flock ..please raise your smiley's hand! Generally speaking, "Conservative" and "Liberal" are terms that refer to a person's legal philosophy, particularly in regard to "judicial interpretation" (the interpretation of law). In law, a "conservative" construction is one that favors an interpretation that is consistent with the original purpose of the law in question. A "liberal" construction is one that favors an interpretation that is more often inclined to thwart the original purpose of the law, in order to accommodate some outside factor (a particular circumstance, a social movement, a personal political interest, etc.). In the political sense (in terms of world politics), these terms are always meant to refer to a person's adherence to those precepts upon which the federal government of their nation is established. Those who are old enough may remember that the old leaders of the Soviet Union were often called "Hardline Conservatives". Since theirs was a Socialist government, the Conservatives of the former Soviet Union were those people who believed in Socialism. In the context of the U.S. government, our federal government was established under an entirely different set of precepts. You see, ours is a Constitutional Democracy, and our Constitution establishes what is known as Limited Government... the balance between Socialism (which is essentially a form of Totalitarianism) and Libertarianism (which is essentially a form of Anarchy). To be certain, the Conservatives of the United States are those people who believe in this type of Limited Government, as set forth by our Constitution. The Constitution establishes the balance between Socialism (Big Government) and Libertarianism (No Government), and if we were to create a model of this, we would have to place our federal Constitution at the center of this model, together with all those folks (the Conservatives) who recognize the ultimate significance of this document. You see, in the United States, the Conservative view is the moderate view. And so, everytime we try to interpret the Constitution in a way that is consistent with its original purpose, the integrity of the Constitution shall have been preserved... and, likewise, our way of life here in the United States shall have been preserved. But everytime we interpret the Constitution in way that is inconsistent with its original purpose, the integrity of the Constitution shall have been compromised... and, likewise, our way of life here in the United States shall have been compromised. It is important to understand the etymology of these terms, because a lot of folks throw these terms around, without any regard to their actual meaning. For instance, a lot of folks have gotten it in their head that Conservative somehow means "parochial" and "narrow-minded", and that Liberal somehow means "progressive" and "free-thinking". If such definitions were true, in the realm of political discussion, then it would make sense that there ought to be some sort of a moderate, ad infinitum view. However, such definitions are contrived out of ignorance. I hope that the following two definitions will provide a better understanding of these two words, in the context of U.S. politics: Conservative A Conservative is someone who recognizes the Constitution as a critical document, and who believes that its integrity must always be preserved through consistent and conservative judicial interpretation. Liberal Generally speaking, a Liberal is someone who is not a Conservative. In the most extreme sense, he is someone who views the Constitution as completely irrelevant. In a more subtle sense, he is someone who perhaps does not view the Constitution as completely irrelevant, but depending on the circumstances, he is willing to declare parts of it irrelevant, in certain situations, in order to reach a desired conclusion. The common denominator among Liberals is that they can see no great harm in twisting and bending the intended meaning of the various articles of the Constitution, in order to accommodate outside factors (a particular circumstance, a social movement, a personal political interest, etc.). The Moderate "Ad Infinitum" Sorry, but there's absolutely no such thing. Undecided Here is the only possible third option: "I don't know" or "I don't care". Joe Your definitions are highly debatable and your logic is flawed. Also, I never said Moderate ad infinitum..that wouldn't make sense. I said Lib, Conserv ad infinitum.. as in.. the Liberal, Conservative rhetoric being spewed .."into infinity"... 'cause it is. Nor when I say this, do I necessarily infer that all of it is wrong or that I disagree with "all" of it. _________________ εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος τον ουρανον και την γην Death is the only way out.   arttieTHE1manparty The Strongest Man In The World Age : 38 Joined : 26 Dec 2006 Posts : 3206 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:04 pm While 95% of my beliefs fall firmly in the Conservative camp, I have always stated I consider myself a moralist. There are, in fact, a small handful of things I don't agree with on the conservative side, but none have proven to be large enough that I would likely consider voting for someone who was firmly entrenched in the Liberal camp of political tax-and-spend-me-to-death thinking. Arttie _________________ Constitutional separation of church and state is a lie; it is a figment of the secular-progressive imagination.   GODSWIZARD Play it LOUD!! Age : 51 Joined : 06 Jan 2007 Posts : 9290 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:10 pm Points: 1. MetalH said: Quote: I think that's supposed to be funny somehow. I agree. I think it is too. 2. That said......I find nothing funny about it. _________________ "The 'farce' is strong with Obama-Wan." words of Scourge. One of the twins: I'm the one who likes it all....   Follower of Jesus Age : 34 Joined : 07 Apr 2007 Posts : 1932 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:50 am I'm smack in the middle. Agree with the conservatives on a few issues, agree with the liberals on a few issues. Its independent thinking 101 for me.   PeacethroughX Cool Mamma Jamma Age : 52 Joined : 11 Mar 2007 Posts : 261 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:48 am Follower of Jesus wrote: Its independent thinking 101 for me. I like that - I think I'll steal that phrase to use along with my explanation! _________________ "Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you— majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?" Exodus 15:11 http://www.achurchforthecity.org http://www.myspace.com/peacelovinghippie "I don't reject your Christ, I love your Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ." Mahatma Ghandi   BackFromTheDawn Age : 21 Joined : 18 May 2007 Posts : 2442 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:27 am Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". _________________ "He had discovered Time and Death and God"-Aldous Huxley   exo Age : 32 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 3266 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:59 am BackFromTheDawn wrote: Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". Nah, it's the FRESH milk that's irrelevant. the "outdated" stuff has simply been around long enough to know better than the "fresh" stuff............ _________________   DeathMetalCookieMonster Resident Aryeonaut Joined : 07 Apr 2007 Posts : 1868 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:16 pm Follower of Jesus wrote: I'm smack in the middle. Agree with the conservatives on a few issues, agree with the liberals on a few issues. Its independent thinking 101 for me. Be right in the middle, just like me. Otherwise, you're not an independent thinker. _________________ Romans 6:1-23   BackFromTheDawn Age : 21 Joined : 18 May 2007 Posts : 2442 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:46 pm exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". Nah, it's the FRESH milk that's irrelevant. the "outdated" stuff has simply been around long enough to know better than the "fresh" stuff............ what about the soymilk? i personally think it's like throwing a vote away on that stuff. _________________ "He had discovered Time and Death and God"-Aldous Huxley   emptytomb1 Man in Morph Age : 40 Joined : 08 Apr 2007 Posts : 6223 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:07 pm I think you meant, ad nauseum. _________________ "No way man, that guy sucks" "you're just saying that cuz you're not metal" yeah you like all these pansy bands, so your opinion is the suxorZ" "You guys don't even know what REAL metal is so shut yer yap Death Metal fan "Whatever... fag! Oh, btw-- DIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEE!! '   VALEDICTION Joined : 13 Apr 2007 Posts : 856 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:31 pm Quote: Your definitions are highly debatable and your logic is flawed. Also, I never said Moderate ad infinitum..that wouldn't make sense. I said Lib, Conserv ad infinitum.. as in.. the Liberal, Conservative rhetoric being spewed .."into infinity"... 'cause it is. Nor when I say this, do I necessarily infer that all of it is wrong or that I disagree with "all" of it. My point is simply that it's always a matter of perspective. If we were in the Soviet Union, the Conservatives would be those who believe in Socialism. If we were in China, the Conservatives would be those who believe in Communism. If we were in Panama, the Conservatives would be those who believe in a Military Dictatorship. If we were in Afghanistan, the Conservatives would be those who believe in Muslim Extremism. -- In America, the Conservatives are those who believe in Constitutional Democracy... and in particular, those principles of Constitutional Democracy that were established in our Declaration of Independence, and that were expounded upon in our federal Constitution. And, by the way, we're not simply talking about an appreciation of the "ideas" of freedom and liberty. No, we are talking about an appreciation of the actual documents. What do we memorialize on the 4th of July? A document. (The Declaration of Independence). What do we recognize as being the sheet-anchor of our nation? A document. (The Constitution of the United States). You see, it is not simply the concept of freedom and liberty that have rendered us free. No, it is a pair of documents. And here in America, a Conservative is simply someone who recognizes this fact, and who seeks to preserve the integrity of those two documents that established our freedom over two hundred years ago. Joe   Snowy Owl Age : 31 Joined : 20 Jun 2007 Posts : 379 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:25 pm I am a proud conservative in the mold of the Old Right...before the neocons ruined the movement. However, I will be someone who recognizes good ideas from the other side of the aisle and will give credit where credit is do. _________________ News for real conservatives-The American Conservative magazine. www.amconmag.com I proudly lead the Catholic conservative metalhead revolution!   exo Age : 32 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 3266 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:09 pm BackFromTheDawn wrote: exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". Nah, it's the FRESH milk that's irrelevant. the "outdated" stuff has simply been around long enough to know better than the "fresh" stuff............ what about the soymilk? i personally think it's like throwing a vote away on that stuff. Well, DUH. You have to use te Rice Milk. Alan Keyes likes Rice Milk. Soon it will be the beverage of choice for America. _________________   DeathMetalCookieMonster Resident Aryeonaut Joined : 07 Apr 2007 Posts : 1868 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:07 pm Quote: I am a proud conservative in the mold of the Old Right...before the neocons ruined the movement. Matt, PLEASE stop using the term "neocon". It was a term that has been used for many, MANY years by libs who call anyone they disagree with "neocons". Heck, they use it and don't even know what it means. "Neo", meaning new or modern, and "conservative" meaning, well, conservative. However, THEY use it to instill "neo-nazi" in people's heads. I don't care if Pat Bukannan uses it, it still is a lib-created term that has no real meaning. _________________ Romans 6:1-23   5minutes Joined : 07 Nov 2007 Posts : 2122 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:32 pm I'm a libertarian conservative who's more fiscally conservative than anyone else on this board, and I think Snowy and the Constitution Party Crusade Crew are loopy. Not exactly the "neo-con" of his dreams. _________________ www.christianmetalforums.com "There's no virtue in having an opinion, especially if it's wrong." - Rush Limbaugh "...remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it." - Barack Hussein Obama   BackFromTheDawn Age : 21 Joined : 18 May 2007 Posts : 2442 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:35 pm exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". Nah, it's the FRESH milk that's irrelevant. the "outdated" stuff has simply been around long enough to know better than the "fresh" stuff............ what about the soymilk? i personally think it's like throwing a vote away on that stuff. Well, DUH. You have to use te Rice Milk. Alan Keyes likes Rice Milk. Soon it will be the beverage of choice for America. You need to take that talk with you. Everyone here is sick of talking about teh Rice Milk. Just give it up. _________________ "He had discovered Time and Death and God"-Aldous Huxley   exo Age : 32 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 3266 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:46 pm BackFromTheDawn wrote: exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: exo wrote: BackFromTheDawn wrote: Orion Crystal Ice wrote: But the milk was probably outdated... what good does non-relevant milk do us? we need some fresh milk... milk that can really address the issues that I go through everyday. milk that will fight to "legalize it". Nah, it's the FRESH milk that's irrelevant. the "outdated" stuff has simply been around long enough to know better than the "fresh" stuff............ what about the soymilk? i personally think it's like throwing a vote away on that stuff. Well, DUH. You have to use te Rice Milk. Alan Keyes likes Rice Milk. Soon it will be the beverage of choice for America. You need to take that talk with you. Everyone here is sick of talking about teh Rice Milk. Just give it up. Rice milk is the way. You'll see. II don't care that there are hundreds of milions of gallons of milk being drunk......they are all clueless. _________________   VALEDICTION Joined : 13 Apr 2007 Posts : 856 Subject: Re: Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...   Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:03 pm Quote: a libertarian conservative A contradiction of terms, I'm afraid. In America, a Libertarian is no more conservative than a Socialist, since both worldviews clearly lean away from the Constitution. With the Libertarians, it's just a matter of leaning "Right" as opposed to "Left". Libertarians believe in economy just the same as Jefferson Conservative, and this is certainly a good thing. I have no problem with their "economic conservatism". However, where the Libertarian fails is in his delineation of Liberty. The Conservative views Liberty as something that is both established and balanced in the Constitution. The balance is a moral balance. Meanwhile, the Libertarian views Liberty as something that is established in the Constitution, but they do not understand the need for a moral balance. For instance, the Libertarian believes that there are such things as "victimless crimes", even though this view holds absolutely no moral balance. Typically, Libertarians are in favor of the legalization of recreational/social drugs, pornography, prostitution, adultery, abortion, etc., etc., etc. But the problem is that such "liberties" end up trampling upon the liberties of others. And this is what makes them immoral. And even in a "victimless crime" scenario, the fact remains that when you are dealing with moral issues... and whenever a moral precept has been broken, God is the victim. The idea of a "victimless crime" is therefore a figment of the imagination. And the fact that Libertarians choose not acknowledge moral law does not change the fact that it exists. They may attempt to shield their eyes from it, and yet it does not go away. You see, whether we like it or not, God's law rules, just as the Christian Reconstructionists contend that it does. Joe   Conservative , Liberal..ad infinitum...     Page 2 of 6 Goto page :   1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6   Permissions of this forum: You cannot reply to topics in this forum The Christian Metal Realm :: Beliefs and Hobbies :: The Study and Debating Realm The Christian Metal Realm :: Beliefs and Hobbies :: The Study and Debating Realm Free forum | © phpbb | Free forum support | Report an abuse | Create your blog