Black Rider said:

Quote:

We would freak at the number of dead but a day is coming, and i'm not necessarily referring to the end times, when that kind of bloodshed will be seen and I think it's soon. Just me and you can disagree, i'm ok with that.

You may be prescient.

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

*BUMP*


Big--mouthed
Ukranians
Molest
People


Last chance:

"The following applies to all of my battles named. Please tell me the following about The Battle Of Hue: Where was it fought, when was it fought, who were the commanders and troop nationalities/troop names of the two opposing sides, who was the winner of the engagement, and for extra credit and valuable points redeemable at a *Russian Biological Warfare Test Site* near you......please give me a little bit of info about the battle; this is your chance to *strut your stuff*, so to speak."


The next battle is:

The Battle Of Hue


Black Rider came back with:

"Hue was fought in 1968 in Hue which was the old imperial capital and the center of Vietnam in both geography as well as culture. General Westmoreland had surmised in 1966 that taking it would have a great psychological effect on Vietnam and so it had been but in 1968 it was retaken by the V.C. for almost a month. The citizens of Hue did not help the V.C. and the expected sweep into power for the communists did not happen. Yet. The fighting was pasted across the T.V.'s in the U.S., the anti war fever swept into gear and Americans turned their backs on our troops as the blood filled the news. Vietnam might have been lost, partly, thanks to news media portraying our men as the bad guys. Not sure what people thought happened in war but now it was right there almost first hand in the media."


Anyone wanting to add anything to that should do it soon because i'll comment upon Black Rider's post tomorrow, and choose a new battle. (An interesting one I hope) (I hope the first two were good.....were they?? )


L8T said:

Quote:

Quote: Yes they did. But I will put in a good word for the French knights and French soldiers in general. They've got a rather well deserved reputation for being wimps, wussies, and bad soldiers here in the U.S. That's true......to a point. With exceptions, in all times and in all places, the French have been lousy soldiers since World War I. Before that they were lousy soldiers from about the time of the end of Napoleon's era until World War I. Good up until about 1820. Lousy from 1820 to 1914. Good from 1914 to 1918. Lousy since then. But if you think L8T the French knights and French soldiers at Crecy were lousy......think again. It was not the fighting quality of the Frenchmen at Crecy, which worked against them, it was the English tactics used against them and the English weapons, specifically the longbows. Frenchmen were damn good soldiers up until the early 1800s. Points well made. Lesson learned here. (There is a shiny Red Apple on your desk)

Thank you.

Yummie!!

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

I'll address the Battle Of Hue and post a new battle.


Black Rider said:

"Hue was fought in 1968 in Hue which was the old imperial capital and the center of Vietnam in both geography as well as culture. General Westmoreland had surmised in 1966 that taking it would have a great psychological effect on Vietnam and so it had been but in 1968 it was retaken by the V.C. for almost a month. The citizens of Hue did not help the V.C. and the expected sweep into power for the communists did not happen. Yet. The fighting was pasted across the T.V.'s in the U.S., the anti war fever swept into gear and Americans turned their backs on our troops as the blood filled the news. Vietnam might have been lost, partly, thanks to news media portraying our men as the bad guys. Not sure what people thought happened in war but now it was right there almost first hand in the media."


That is all completely correct and I agree with all of it.



My questions were thus:

"The following applies to all of my battles named. Please tell me the following about The Battle Of Hue: Where was it fought, when was it fought, who were the commanders and troop nationalities/troop names of the two opposing sides, who was the winner of the engagement, and for extra credit and valuable points redeemable at a *Russian Biological Warfare Test Site* near you......please give me a little bit of info about the battle; this is your chance to *strut your stuff*, so to speak."


The Battle Of Hue was fought in a city that was in the very northern part of South Vietnam, close to both the coast and the DMZ, the border between North and South Vietnam. The battle was fought by elements of the North Vietnamese PAVN--People's Army of Vietnam, North Vietnamese allies the NLF-- National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam also known as the Viet Cong on one side. The troops on the other side were elements of the South Vietnamese ARVN--Army of the Republic of Vietnam, and units of both the United States Army and Marines.

The Battle Of Hue was a major part of the North's Tet Offensive. The Tet Offensive was a very large offensive that involved elements of the PAVN and NLF in hundreds of attacks which were unleashed all over South Vietnam. The offensive and The Battle Of Hue began on January 30, 1968 and lasted until March 3. The city originally had a garrison mostly composed of South Vietnamese units, there were few American soldiers there. As the PAVN and NLF basically took most of the city away from the ARVN, it fell to the Americans, and reinforced ARVN units, to take it back. The Battle Of Hue was bitter street fighting, hotly contested, and one of the very few city battles which took place during the Vietnam War.

As Black Rider mentioned, Hue ended in a great, great situation of irony for the American military. Black Rider said, "The fighting was pasted across the T.V.'s in the U.S., the anti war fever swept into gear and Americans turned their backs on our troops as the blood filled the news. Vietnam might have been lost, partly, thanks to news media portraying our men as the bad guys." Please look at his final sentence there. I will go even further and assert his statement in an entirely positive way. Vietnam was lost, very largely, because of the media's meddling and bringing war into the American dinner tables and living rooms. War is not a pretty sight. The huge irony here is that The Battle Of Hue was entirely an ARVN and American victory. The PAVN and NLF took almost 10,000 casualties and were driven from Hue. The Americans and ARVN forces took a fraction of the casualties in forcing the PAVN and NLF units into retreat from Hue.

It did not really matter. The die was cast in a big way. U.S. support for the war started to wane in a really big way, and just picked up steam as time went along, until the Americans were gone totally in 1973.





The questions:

"The following applies to all of my battles named. Please tell me the following about The Battle Of Antietam: Where was it fought, when was it fought, who were the commanders and troop nationalities/troop names of the two opposing sides, who was the winner of the engagement, and for extra credit and valuable points redeemable at a *Russian Biological Warfare Test Site* near you......please give me a little bit of info about the battle; this is your chance to *strut your stuff*, so to speak."


The Battle Of Antietam





BTW I am curious about this:

"(An interesting one I hope) (I hope the first two were good.....were they?? ) "

Is my choice of battles so far O.K.?? There have only been two, and this is the third, but are they O.K. so far??

I like the choices so far. very interesting.


Antietam is in Maryland and of course was part of the War of the Rebellion in the US. The battle was won by the United States which defeated the rebel armies from the Southern US. One of the few defeats for the rebel leader Robert E Lee. Probably the high point of the war for the US general McClellan.

This battle contains what is still the bloodiest day in American history both in number of casualties and deaths.

*BUMP*



Brave
Ukranians
Monopolize
Pentahedrons

I am gonna' get back to school soon.....working on my answer.


(*BOOMP*)

At least I know a little about this battle, cause' I am related to Civil-War FREAKS.

Points:


1. LOL, I don't have to bump this thread right now before I get off the CMR for the night (probably). Thanks.


2. Oh no......they are not "freaks."

They are people knowledgeable in, interested in, well read in, and well versed in the American Civil War.


Get it right.

^I played "war" as a kid, but, I didn't call it Reinactments.

*BUMP*


Blind
Ugandans
Meander
Purposelessly



Hey L8T.......you did not call it that as a kid because we use bigger words as adults.

Watch.

Poop.

Brown fecal matter which is entirely yucky--icky--poo, and noxious in its aroma.

See??





I shall comment upon, and add to, Intrigued1's post, probably tomorrow.

Antietam is one of the most amazing battles of the Civil War. Many remark, rightly, that it was the bloodiest single day in American history, wherein more casualties were lost than in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812 and the Mexican-American war combined.

Technically the battle was a draw. However, since Lee was not able to pursue his invasion any further, most consider it a win for the Union. Even in victory, McClellan was too cautious. He had an opportunity here at Antietam to annihilate Lee's army, but was just too cautious and too timid. He wouldn't commit his reserves to exploit openings in the Southern lines because he feared Lee would commit his reserves. Problem? Lee had no reserves. The remainder of his force was still down at Harpers Ferry. McClellan had one final chance to destroy the southern army as they surrounded it in Sharpsburg, but he had waited so long in the day to do so that Confederate Gen A.P. Hill and his division arrived on the field from Harpers Ferry. That was all they needed to hold off the Federals and escape across the Potomac.

Also, seldom had a general on one side so badly misjudged the leadership on the other side. When Gen. Johnston was injured in battle, and Lee was promoted to lead the Army of Northern Virginia, McClellan wrote Lincoln that he was glad it was Lee, for Lee, he believed, would be timid and not very apt at working an inferior force against the North. Yeah, that turned out well, didn't it?

A.P. Hill's division did a forced march from Harpers Ferry covering 17 miles in 7 hours. Many consider a healthy person capable of a 4 minute mile. That march meant those men did a 2.4 minute mile, for 17 straight miles. A.P. Hill had some personal motivation to get into battle since he and McClellan had been friends before the war, and since they'd competed for the affections of the same woman, who chose and married Gen. McClellan. Hill was eager to show up McClellan and show her he was the better man.

This battle saw some of the most vicious fighting in the entire war. The area known as "The Cornfield" saw over 8,000 men fall in less than 3 hours between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. in attacks and counterattacks. At the battle's conclusion, it was said (in all seriousness) that one could walk the entire 30 acre cornfield and never touch the ground there were so many fallen soldiers.

The battle gave Lincoln the much needed victory he craved in order to issue the Emancipation Proclamation. He didn't want to release the proclamation when it would appear to be in desperation; but rather needed to issue it at a time of strength. Antietam gave him that opportunity. In that way, the Battle of Antietam forever changed the war and the nation. It changed the war from just a battle about southern sovereignty and preserving the Union into a crusade to free African Americans from the bounds of slavery.

The Union Army of the Potomac would fumble about for another 10 months or so under inept leadership by Gens. McClellan, Burnside and Hooker, before finally just 3 days before Gettysburg, Gen. Meade was put in charge of the Army. As everyone knows, Gettysburg turned it around.

McClellan would go on to run for President against Abraham Lincoln in 1864 as the Democratic nominee. While things looked good for him in summer 1864, the fall campaigns of Grant in Virginia and Sherman to Atlanta secured another term for Lincoln.

I still hope to get to Antietam sometime soon. I'm blessed to live nearby the major battlefields in the eastern theater as I'm only an hour from Gettysburg, 2 hours from Antietam and 3 hours from Bull Run. Its only 4 hours to Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, where I also hope to get someday. While Antietam and Gettysburg were the bloodiest battles, Fredericksburg marks what was, in my opinion, the biggest waste in human lives in the entire easter theater of the war (the frontal assault on Marye's Heights).

Uh, what he said.

Points:


1. I have this to say about the posts by Intrigued1 and FOJ (especially FOJ's)......
















2. Welcome to our little corner of *Military History World* FOJ. You'll like it here. You'll be welcomed heartily as one of the five or six (yes......that many) regulars if you decide to stick around. You'll also find that here at *Military History World* all the rides are 1/2 price on Thursdays.




3. BTW FOJ......your post above/below was a veritable thing of beauty. I have absolutely nothing to add to that. Nice.

Quote:

Antietam is one of the most amazing battles of the Civil War. Many remark, rightly, that it was the bloodiest single day in American history, wherein more casualties were lost than in the Revolutionary War, War of 1812 and the Mexican-American war combined. Technically the battle was a draw. However, since Lee was not able to pursue his invasion any further, most consider it a win for the Union. Even in victory, McClellan was too cautious. He had an opportunity here at Antietam to annihilate Lee's army, but was just too cautious and too timid. He wouldn't commit his reserves to exploit openings in the Southern lines because he feared Lee would commit his reserves. Problem? Lee had no reserves. The remainder of his force was still down at Harpers Ferry. McClellan had one final chance to destroy the southern army as they surrounded it in Sharpsburg, but he had waited so long in the day to do so that Confederate Gen A.P. Hill and his division arrived on the field from Harpers Ferry. That was all they needed to hold off the Federals and escape across the Potomac. Also, seldom had a general on one side so badly misjudged the leadership on the other side. When Gen. Johnston was injured in battle, and Lee was promoted to lead the Army of Northern Virginia, McClellan wrote Lincoln that he was glad it was Lee, for Lee, he believed, would be timid and not very apt at working an inferior force against the North. Yeah, that turned out well, didn't it? A.P. Hill's division did a forced march from Harpers Ferry covering 17 miles in 7 hours. Many consider a healthy person capable of a 4 minute mile. That march meant those men did a 2.4 minute mile, for 17 straight miles. A.P. Hill had some personal motivation to get into battle since he and McClellan had been friends before the war, and since they'd competed for the affections of the same woman, who chose and married Gen. McClellan. Hill was eager to show up McClellan and show her he was the better man. This battle saw some of the most vicious fighting in the entire war. The area known as "The Cornfield" saw over 8,000 men fall in less than 3 hours between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. in attacks and counterattacks. At the battle's conclusion, it was said (in all seriousness) that one could walk the entire 30 acre cornfield and never touch the ground there were so many fallen soldiers. The battle gave Lincoln the much needed victory he craved in order to issue the Emancipation Proclamation. He didn't want to release the proclamation when it would appear to be in desperation; but rather needed to issue it at a time of strength. Antietam gave him that opportunity. In that way, the Battle of Antietam forever changed the war and the nation. It changed the war from just a battle about southern sovereignty and preserving the Union into a crusade to free African Americans from the bounds of slavery. The Union Army of the Potomac would fumble about for another 10 months or so under inept leadership by Gens. McClellan, Burnside and Hooker, before finally just 3 days before Gettysburg, Gen. Meade was put in charge of the Army. As everyone knows, Gettysburg turned it around. McClellan would go on to run for President against Abraham Lincoln in 1864 as the Democratic nominee. While things looked good for him in summer 1864, the fall campaigns of Grant in Virginia and Sherman to Atlanta secured another term for Lincoln. I still hope to get to Antietam sometime soon. I'm blessed to live nearby the major battlefields in the eastern theater as I'm only an hour from Gettysburg, 2 hours from Antietam and 3 hours from Bull Run. Its only 4 hours to Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, where I also hope to get someday. While Antietam and Gettysburg were the bloodiest battles, Fredericksburg marks what was, in my opinion, the biggest waste in human lives in the entire easter theater of the war (the frontal assault on Marye's Heights).

Beauty.




4. It is time for the next battle. This has always been one of my very favorite battles to wargame. I find it extremely interesting and love to try to outperform the generals who really commanded there.


The Battle Of Chickamauga


As usual:

"The following applies to all of my battles named. Please tell me the following about The Battle Of Chickamauga: Where was it fought, when was it fought, who were the commanders and troop nationalities/troop names of the two opposing sides, who was the winner of the engagement, and for extra credit and valuable points redeemable at a *Iranian Crowd Control School* near you......please give me a little bit of info about the battle; this is your chance to *strut your stuff*, so to speak."

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

That's it?

I've heard of this battle, and that it was one of major conflicts in the war, but I still know far too little about it. If I remember right, this was a Confederate victory. Seems like cheating to go to Wikipedia and get all the info...however, if none of us know about it....

Chris (Alldat) might know something about this since it was fought down in his neck of the woods.

Ambrose Bierce wrote a story about this battle. I'm better with literature...