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 I Smell a Rat

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candlemass
The Idiot Formerley Known As The Changeling


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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:25 am

Anyone's view on eschatology is largely based on when you think Revelation was written, there seem to be two credible views on this. Hank Hanegraaff has slamed Tim Lahey's "Left Behind" series, largely based on the presupostion that Revelation was written around A.D. 95, Hank insists it was written around A.D. 65. John MacArthur has been a guest on Hank's show many times over the years, they have both acknowledged friendship and I thought they were cut from the same cloth as far as doctrine/theology was concerned. They are not, and I haven't heard John on the show since Hank's book "The Apocolypse Code" was released. In that book Hank slams Tim's views repeatedly, yet he does not slam John's views, wich are essentially the same.

From the "Legacy Study Bible";

"Revelation was written approximately A.D. 65-66. It is instructive to note that the A.D. 95-96 dating of Revelation is largely dependent on a single, and markedly ambiguous, sentence in the writtings of Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons. There is strong evidence however, that Revelation was not written decades after the destruction of Jerusalem. Just as it is unreasonable to suppose someone writting a thesis on the future of terrorism in America in the aftermath of 9/11 would fail to mention the World Trade Center, it streches credulity to suggest Revelation was written after the devistation of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple yet make no mention of the cataclysmic event. Futhermore, if John wrote in A.D. 95, it is incredible to suppose he would not mention the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy. Finally, New Testament documents, including the book of Revelation (11:1), speak of Jerusalem and the Jewish temple as intact at the time they were written. Indeed, we can be certain that the entire canon was completed prior to A.D. 70."


From the "MacArthur Study Bible";

"Revelation was written in the last decade of the first century (ca. A.D. 94-96), near the end of Emperor Domitian's reign (A.D. 8--96). Although some date it during Nero's reign (A.D. 54-68), their arguements are unconvincing and conflict w/the view of the early church. Writting in the second century, Irenaeus declared that Revelation had been written toward the end of Domitian's reign. Later writters, such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Victorinus (who wrote one of the earliest commentaries on Revelation), Eusbius, and Jerome affirm the Domitian date.
The spiritual decline of the 7 churches (chaps. 2,3), also argues for the later date. Those churches were strong and spiritualy healthy in the mid 60's, when Paul last ministered in Asia Minor. The brief time between Paul's ministry there and the end of Nero's reign was too short for such a decline to have occured. The longer time gap also explains the rise of the heretical sect known as the Nicolations (2:6,15), who are not mentioned in Paul's letters, not even to one or more of these same churches (Ephesians). Finally, dating Revelation during Nero's reign does not allow for John's ministry in Asia Minor to reach the point at wich athorities would have felt the need to exile him."

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Bribanez



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:25 am

Look busy, Jesus is coming!

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Tall Tyrion



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:57 am

candlemass wrote:
Anyone's view on eschatology is largely based on when you think Revelation was written.


To a certain extent that's true, the scholars tend to line up that way,
but a pre-millenial position is not dependant upon the dating. I think
Ken Gentry's book Before Jerusalem Fell made an excellent case
for dating the book of Revelation to before 70 AD, but his supposition
that this dating forced us to accept a post-millennial position was
less than compelling to me.

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Musclecar1975



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:20 pm

candlemass wrote:
Anyone's view on eschatology is largely based on when you think Revelation was written


Nah, my view on eschatology is based on a literal reading of the Scriptures, in a nutshell.

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Tall Tyrion



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:01 pm

Musclecar1975 wrote:

Nah, my view on eschatology is based on a literal reading of the Scriptures, in a nutshell.


Word to the wise, be careful when using the "L" word.

_________________
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''Let me be clear: There is no military solution in Iraq and there never was. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year -- now,'' Candidate Obama in 2007

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Musclecar1975



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:25 pm

Tall Tyrion wrote:
Musclecar1975 wrote:

Nah, my view on eschatology is based on a literal reading of the Scriptures, in a nutshell.


Word to the wise, be careful when using the "L" word.


LOL! I know what you mean......I thought about that after making this post....I know what that can lead to.

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Tall Tyrion



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:45 pm

I prefer the word "straightforward". As in:

Quote:
All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them.
They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. Prov.6:8-9

_________________
“If you make less than $250,000 your taxes will not go up. Not one dime.” BH Obama

''Let me be clear: There is no military solution in Iraq and there never was. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year -- now,'' Candidate Obama in 2007

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Musclecar1975



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:02 pm

Tall Tyrion wrote:
I prefer the word "straightforward". As in:

Quote:
All the utterances of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing crooked or perverted in them.
They are all straightforward to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge. Prov.6:8-9


Amen! Well said!

_________________
....it was needful for me to write to you, and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php

http://www.letusreason.org/

www.raptureready.com

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bgast1



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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:02 pm

Obama wan seems to be hatin' on Israel. That alone could cause our nation to cease to exist.

Edit: I didn't realize there were 2 pages when I posted this.

Re. the possibility of this being the end times. Well, it certainly looks that way. But I recall it looking that way back in the late '60's early '70's. We'll just have to be ready.
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GODSWIZARD
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PostSubject: Re: I Smell a Rat   Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:34 pm

Quote:
Obama wan seems to be hatin' on Israel. That alone could cause our nation to cease to exist.



It won't cause it to "cease to exist", but it could/will seriously cause the way GOD looks upon, favors it, to change. Seriously change it.





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I Smell a Rat

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