Fired for having a God Pin!

FireStormWarning · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:50 pm

GODSWIZARD wrote:

Points:

1. ProPan said:

Quote:

If it was an I love Allah pin.....

And I did

2. And Allah loves you.

Come here for some *Allah love*.

3. I may as well post seriously. (What a concept

........posting seriously.

I must do it more

)

This guy violated the company policy.

He got canned for violating the company policy.

Life goes on.

There goes life now.

The best post in this thread, IMO!

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Angel with Attitude · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:55 pm

Quote:

That's just it, though...he wasn't on the clock with his Bible, he was at lunch.

That said, I don't know what Home Depot's policy is concerning lunch breaks and whether they are paid breaks, or not. If he was on a paid lunch break, then technically he was still on company time while reading the Word.

Still a stupid reason to fire him, unless he was causing other trouble not mentioned in the article.

I'm gladd you brought this part upp because I don't want to give the impression that I am against things like at work, break time Bible study....PROVIDED that this is an action the LORD most definitely wants you to take. It is absolutely NOT the only way to share Christ in the workplace. If that is on a person's heart they can and SHOULD pray and ask the Lord what they should do, how and when they should do it and by all means, go for it.

Personally, it seems to me that having it in your home is preferable because it's your home, no one can tell you what you can or cannot do or say, you can spend more than 30 minutes or an hour getting into it and the folks you invite from work don't have to worry about it conflicting with their jobb and may appreciate the more intimate setting, but that may be just me.

The question there for me really is..WHAT is your ultimate goal in doing so and WHO exactly are you trying to serve?

If we are going to blindly read in religious persecution where there is none and a simple company policy was willfully violated, resulting in a job termination, then that's just stupid on our part.

There is another side to 'all things are permissable, not everything is beneficial' but few people will see that...especially if they don't want to.

I know plenty of folks who read their Bible on their breaks, either in their office or out in their car or at a nearby park or even at a restaurant. I'm sure they'd be bent if someone told them they couldn't do so. They also seek to be the kind of employees with whom their boss would not find fault and as a result, they have their jobbs. See the correlation?

If this man was asked to remove his pin and it seemed questionable to him, he could have taken other options under consideration, like inquiring further about policy, talking to some upper management about his situation, prayed, searched his heart to see if this was really a battle worth fighting...all without starting a negative publicity campaign against HD on the interwebbz.

I don't personally equate stirring upp a bunch of people in a half-cocked way as bringing glory to God.

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only symbols can be twisted ,burned,spat on etc.NOTHING truly Holy can be desecrated..... - Sabbath Steve

All the Bible study tends to be head knowledge until life experiences drive that knowledge the 12-18 inches to our hearts. aldat

guenther · Number of posts: 166 Registration date: 2008-05-08

metalheaded wrote:

All the talk about him being justifiably fired for not obeying company policy is fine, but what about ethics of Home Depot? Surely the public and/or employees can say NO! to things that are ridiculous, right? Isn't there such a thing as change, anymore?

Changes in rules come from the top on down, not from the bottom up.....

STRUTTER777 · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:32 pm

Pretty small-minded of them if they can't handle a patriotic pin with a phrase from our Pledge of Allegiance.

They do allow buttons there, if the company approves of them. Apparently, they did not approve this one. Why not?

If the guy was in the wrong, that is a seperate issue. He already took the punishment for his choice, so maybe the guy can be extended some forgiveness?

_________________
YOU MUST RESIST!!!

"Saddam Hussein was an international criminal who deserved to be removed and punished. George Bush the father should have and could have removed him, but it took George Bush the son to do the job."
-- Peter Wagner

"There are terrorists who are intent on destroying the United States of America, and we will not let them." -- Paul Stanley, KISS

**exo** · Number of posts: 8671 Age: 34 Registration date: 2007-04-07

"small minded" is pretty irrelevant.....so long as their policy is uniformly enforced.

i just don't understand why some Christians are so.....eager....to find persecution and bias and essentially jump at shadows. They sorta remind me of the "Help, help, I'm being repressed" guy from Monty Python.......

_________________
Obama is no more the Anti-Christ than George Bush is Sauron, sending his armies into Iraq searching for the One Ring.....

Dwarven gravitational theory states that enough ale will make anything fall down.

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Angel with Attitude · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:49 pm

Quote:

Pretty small-minded of them if they can't handle a patriotic pin with a phrase from our Pledge of Allegiance.

OR...it could just be, like many other places, that in order to be fair to everyone and/or not invite an entirely avoidable headache that potentially interferes with everyone's main purpose for being there...in this case, to work and make their wages, they just make upptight rules across the board.

Maybe the first or second supervisor who saw the pin was slack/non-confrontational and didn't ask him to remove it right away (which kind of relates to my statements above) and another more by-the-book supervisor eventually did, leading to some confusion and upset.

I don't go into HD much but I can't recall seeing any of their employees wearing bunches of pins/flare of any sort.

_________________
only symbols can be twisted ,burned,spat on etc.NOTHING truly Holy can be desecrated..... - Sabbath Steve

All the Bible study tends to be head knowledge until life experiences drive that knowledge the 12-18 inches to our hearts. aldat

DeliveranceThrash777 · Number of posts: 94 Age: 13 Registration date: 2009-09-30

That's just dumb!

STRUTTER777 · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:37 pm

exo wrote:

"small minded" is pretty irrelevant

Ah! That depends entirely upon this question: Relevant to what?

If you mean that it is not relevant to the if the guy was in the wrong, then I would obviously agree, because as I stated, "If the guy was in the wrong, that is a seperate issue."

It is entirely relevant to the reason the employer does not approve this pin, but DOES approve others. I am looking at the degree to which the employer acted with commom sense, and questioning why they did not approve the pin.

Quote:

Keezer was offered a company-approved pin

The smart thing for them to do would have been to just approve the pin, and avoid this conflict altogether.

They could have avoided a lot of headache and at least avoided the law suit, which now even if they win will cost them time and legal fees in the meantime. It makes them look silly that this is all over them not approving a little patriotic pin.

Approve the pin.

What a concept!

Smart, simple, easy.

That way, the there would be no violation, and no problem.

_________________
YOU MUST RESIST!!!

"Saddam Hussein was an international criminal who deserved to be removed and punished. George Bush the father should have and could have removed him, but it took George Bush the son to do the job."
-- Peter Wagner

"There are terrorists who are intent on destroying the United States of America, and we will not let them." -- Paul Stanley, KISS

FireStormWarning · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:18 pm

So what then Strutter? Wouldn't that mean that other employees would all have to get their pins approved too, regardless of what is on it? The "I love Allah" example is a perfect one.

Like it or not, you're saying that because this employee was wearing a pin containing a sentiment with which you agree, he should receive special treatment over the other employees.

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projectpandemic · Number of posts: 437 Age: 39 Registration date: 2007-05-09

I cant believe this thread is still going. Once again Strutter, So what if it was a patrotic pin........What if it said Iran rules America drools. Would you still be defending his "Right" to where a patrotic pin? Does HD owe this guy a job? Or is it this guy owes work to HD for his paycheck? What about a cop wearing a pin that says " A friend with weed is a friend indeed" ( I have seen this pin before) How do you think that would work out? Truth is he made all us Christians look like whiny spoiled little children. Its not like he was told he cant be a Christian.

**exo** · Number of posts: 8671 Age: 34 Registration date: 2007-04-07

STRUTTER777 wrote:

exo wrote:

"small minded" is pretty irrelevant

Ah! That depends entirely upon this question: Relevant to what?

If you mean that it is not relevant to the if the guy was in the wrong, then I would obviously agree, because as I stated, "If the guy was in the wrong, that is a seperate issue."

It is entirely relevant to the reason the employer does not approve this pin, but DOES approve others. I am looking at the degree to which the employer acted with commom sense, and questioning why they did not approve the pin.

Quote:

Keezer was offered a company-approved pin

The smart thing for them to do would have been to just approve the pin, and avoid this conflict altogether.

They could have avoided a lot of headache and at least avoided the law suit, which now even if they win will cost them time and legal fees in the meantime. It makes them look silly that this is all over them not approving a little patriotic pin.

Approve the pin.

What a concept!

Smart, simple, easy.

That way, the there would be no violation, and no problem.

THE pin is irrelevant to the issue. It's NOT why the guy got fired, and focusing on it is simple misdirection of the issue.

The onus absolutely is NOT on the "company" to avoid a conflict. Frankly, with the number of stores and employees HD has, it'd be nigh unto impossible to accomodate every employee preference that may turn into a conflict. that's the ENTIRE reason they HAVE company policies regarding dress and such. It sets a uniform guideline THROUGHOUT the compnay, and places the onus on the EMPLOYEE to follow it, with the fact that failure to do so will result in disciplinary action up to and including termination.

The guy brought a defiant, rebellious, insubordinate attitude into play, and it cost him his job. End of story.

_________________
Obama is no more the Anti-Christ than George Bush is Sauron, sending his armies into Iraq searching for the One Ring.....

Dwarven gravitational theory states that enough ale will make anything fall down.

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

Musclecar1975 · Number of posts: 541 Age: 39 Registration date: 2009-06-15

projectpandemic wrote:

Truth is he made all us Christians look like whiny spoiled little children. Its not like he was told he cant be a Christian.

I totally agree.....this can even hurt us as believers, because it makes us look like we cry wolf everytime someone doesn't disagree with our viewpoint. So the next time when there's a real case of a Christian being discriminated against, people will remember this Pin Incident and roll their eyes and say "There goes those Christians complaining again!" Not that I care what they think, but it takes away from those situations where there is a real case of religious discrimination.

Quote:

They could have avoided a lot of headache and at least avoided the law suit, which now even if they win will cost them time and legal fees in the meantime. It makes them look silly that this is all over them not approving a little patriotic pin.

The only one who looks silly in all this is the guy who is belly-aching over not being able to wear a pin, lost his job because of his defiance, and is crying to the media about it.

When this is all said and done, God is not glorified in any of this.

_________________
....it was needful for me to write to you, and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered to the saints. Jude 1:3

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php

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www.raptureready.com

"There are only 27,000 other CDs to get." --- GODSWIZARD

STRUTTER777 · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:03 pm

Quote:

Would you still be defending his "Right" to where a patrotic pin?

LOL! That's priceless and hilarious. Had you read what I posted, you would know that I am not defending the guy, and I'm not defending his "right" to wear the pin now, so how could I possibly continue?

The guy apparently broke the rules, I never once said I condoned his choice.

Quote:

Does HD owe this guy a job?

No, of course not. That should really be a no-brainer.

You had to ask?

_________________
YOU MUST RESIST!!!

"Saddam Hussein was an international criminal who deserved to be removed and punished. George Bush the father should have and could have removed him, but it took George Bush the son to do the job."
-- Peter Wagner

"There are terrorists who are intent on destroying the United States of America, and we will not let them." -- Paul Stanley, KISS

exact3 · Number of posts: 538 Registration date: 2007-04-07

Musclecar1975 wrote:

When this is all said and done, God is not glorified in any of this.

exactly. This lawsuit makes it look more like a grab for cash than religious principle. My employer says no sneakers, jeans, etc so in order to keep my job I obey the rules. I dont know why this guy couldnt do the same..

Alex

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STRUTTER777 · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:15 pm

FireStormWarning wrote:

Wouldn't that mean that other employees would all have to get their pins approved too, regardless of what is on it?

The employer set the policy that pins must be approved, not I!

So to answer your question, FireStormWarning, of course all employees have to have their pins approved, regardless of what is on it, because that is their policy.

Yes, their current policy may give "special treatment" or preferrance to certain pin messages or viewpoints over others, but I did not set that policy, did I?

_________________
YOU MUST RESIST!!!

"Saddam Hussein was an international criminal who deserved to be removed and punished. George Bush the father should have and could have removed him, but it took George Bush the son to do the job."
-- Peter Wagner

"There are terrorists who are intent on destroying the United States of America, and we will not let them." -- Paul Stanley, KISS

STRUTTER777 · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:51 pm

exo wrote:

The onus absolutely is NOT on the "company" to avoid a conflict.

This may come as a surprise to you exo, but if by "onus" you mean "obligation", I completely agree with you!

I never said they had an obligation to avoid conflict.
They are free to not avoid conflict if they so choose.

If they like conflict, good for them -- because now they are sure getting it.

However, it would have been the smart thing to do, in the interest of the employer, the common sense thing to do, to approve the harmless button just like all the other buttons they approve.

And you are correct, exo, they probably had no obligation to act with common sense in that way.

(As for the employee, I am not defending his choice, nor have I so far.
He apparently wore a pin that was not approved and was punished for it.)

_________________
YOU MUST RESIST!!!

"Saddam Hussein was an international criminal who deserved to be removed and punished. George Bush the father should have and could have removed him, but it took George Bush the son to do the job."
-- Peter Wagner

"There are terrorists who are intent on destroying the United States of America, and we will not let them." -- Paul Stanley, KISS

tohostudios · Number of posts: 4413 Registration date: 2007-04-07

From my perspective, this whole story has been about trying to create a martyr out of some guy who refused to comply with a known dress code, all the articles and some of the posts here and on blogs are trying to portray Home Depot as some God-hating entity.

Just look at the title of this thread. The guy was fired for not conforming to the company dress code, even after he was given an alternative. Home Depot is strictly trying to avoid any nuisance ACLU lawsuits because someone is offended by a pin that has the word "God" on it. I object to the implication I've seen in all the articles that Home Depot is some God-oppressing, evil entity. No, they're not. They simply don't want to deal with the endless BS that groups like the ACLU and MoveOn.org can throw their way so they've implemented this policy.

This guy is not a martyr IMO yet the conservative media seems to be trying to cast him in that light.

And for the record, I have absolutely no affiliation with Home Depot (I actually prefer Lowe's myself) but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

This guy didn't like the company policy and now he's free to look for an employer with a policy he can tolerate. End of story. A martyr or Christian cause celeb he's not in my book.

_________________
"The banner of loud and rebellious music will never die. It just gets older." - GODSWIZARD

**exo** · Number of posts: 8671 Age: 34 Registration date: 2007-04-07

STRUTTER777 wrote:

exo wrote:

The onus absolutely is NOT on the "company" to avoid a conflict.

This may come as a surprise to you exo, but if by "onus" you mean "obligation", I completely agree with you!

I never said they had an obligation to avoid conflict.
They are free to not avoid conflict if they so choose.

If they like conflict, good for them -- because now they are sure getting it.

However, it would have been the smart thing to do, in the interest of the employer, the common sense thing to do, to approve the harmless button just like all the other buttons they approve.

And you are correct, exo, they probably had no obligation to act with common sense in that way.

(As for the employee, I am not defending his choice, nor have I so far.
He apparently wore a pin that was not approved and was punished for it.)

It's not a matter of failure to use "common sense" on the part of the employer, though...that's what I'm getting at. It comes down to "if we approve pin X for thus and such reason, then we'll have to approve pin Y, and what happens if we end up approving a pin, but someone who doesn't like it get's litigious about it, blah blah bla yadda yadda" That's EXACTLY why the HAVE "company policy" regarding this sort of thing.

Trying to spin this so that somehow HD is "at fault" for not using "common sense" doesn't really work; because of the religious nature of the object in question, the EMPLOYEE put them in what could have been a "damned if we DO, damned if we DON'T" situation....honestly, with regards to potential litigation and fallout, I'm pretty sure that, at the time this happened, NOT approving the pin looked like the best way to avoid a potential ACLU lawsuit or the like (remember, we live in the "I don't like your policy decision, so I'm going to SUE YOU" age), and THAT, in the business world is EXACTLY what ammounts "common sense".

So, the employer DID make they felt was the "common sense" business decision, for the good of their entire company and workforce, Mr. Keever disagreed with the decision, exhibited extreme poor judgeent, and was let go.

_________________
Obama is no more the Anti-Christ than George Bush is Sauron, sending his armies into Iraq searching for the One Ring.....

Dwarven gravitational theory states that enough ale will make anything fall down.

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

**exo** · Number of posts: 8671 Age: 34 Registration date: 2007-04-07

Toho, you and I think so similarly at times, it's almost scary........

_________________
Obama is no more the Anti-Christ than George Bush is Sauron, sending his armies into Iraq searching for the One Ring.....

Dwarven gravitational theory states that enough ale will make anything fall down.

Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"

FireStormWarning · Subject: Re: Fired for having a God Pin! Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:21 pm

tohostudios wrote:

From my perspective, this whole story has been about trying to create a martyr out of some guy who refused to comply with a known dress code, all the articles and some of the posts here and on blogs are trying to portray Home Depot as some God-hating entity.

Just look at the title of this thread. The guy was fired for not conforming to the company dress code, even after he was given an alternative. Home Depot is strictly trying to avoid any nuisance ACLU lawsuits because someone is offended by a pin that has the word "God" on it. I object to the implication I've seen in all the articles that Home Depot is some God-oppressing, evil entity. No, they're not. They simply don't want to deal with the endless BS that groups like the ACLU and MoveOn.org can throw their way so they've implemented this policy.

This guy is not a martyr IMO yet the conservative media seems to be trying to cast him in that light.

And for the record, I have absolutely no affiliation with Home Depot (I actually prefer Lowe's myself) but I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

This guy didn't like the company policy and now he's free to look for an employer with a policy he can tolerate. End of story. A martyr or Christian cause celeb he's not in my book.

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