Here is a clip from Wikipedia's Entry on the guy:

Quote:

Avner, whose parents were of Huron and Lakota heritage, states that altering oneself to resemble one's own totem is an ancient Huron tradition. The former Navy sonar technician who currently works as a computer programmer took on the name Stalking Cat and began his modifications after a discussion with an Indian chief who reportedly inspired him to 'follow the ways of the tiger'.

and a couple from the Seattle Times:

Quote:

"I'm Huron and Lakota," he said, relaxing barefoot in his Freeland living room. "I'm just taking a very old tradition, that to my knowledge is not practiced anymore."

Quote:

Glenn McGee, director of the Center for Bioethics at Albany Medical College in New York, said it's true that traditional peoples around the world have, like Stalking Cat, tried to emulate animals as a model for virility. But McGee said he believes the extreme to which Stalking Cat is pushing medical technology is dangerous. "Cosmetic surgery is a practice based on informed consent that needs to balance the risks with the benefits," he said. McGee believes Stalking Cat is seriously risking his health by undergoing so many surgeries. "It is possible to have a coherent view that is nonetheless detrimental to one's well-being," McGee said. "This is a patient who's being harmed by medicine in the interest of his tradition."

Points:

1. Thank you for posting FSW. That was an interesting post and it was nice to hear a *voice of reason*, as it were, and as I believe you to be.

2. This is my opinion, so take it as such. Using your post as a comparative and *reasonable* source of information......I believe that these media pieces from the BBC, went out of their way to find the most annoying and irritating and extreme people that they could.

3. Again, my opinion so take it as such. This whole *furry* business is IMO--using your post as a comparative and *reasonable* source of information--somewhat similar to any pastime and pursuit that *reasonable* people can pursue. They pursue that pastime for what it provides them with......fulfillment and enjoyment and knowledge. An analogy. I played D & D for 10 years. Seriously. From 1975 to 1985 I ran a campaign called "My world and welcome to it". I/we played the game a lot, and I/we did it for enjoyment, fulfillment and knowledge that it provided of Ancient and Medieval and fantasy histories and genres.

So, that said......this whole *furry* biz falls in this Greg category. The category of *Whatever floats yer' boat*.

4. The above three points said.......all of my statements and (thinly veiled) disgust stated in my previous posts, still stands. All of it, all of the posts. These people that take the *furry* stuff to extremes and the fellow who engages in surgery to better know and pursue his inner *wild and crazy tiger guy* are all......just.....lost without a clue.

Well, it seems you've mellowed out just a bit anyway, Gee Dubya. XD

Anyway... I agree for the most part. Those who take their interests to extremes... ANY interests, whether they're furry or fantasy or sci-fi or whatever else... ANYONE who takes that interest to an extreme IS lost.

But again, I'd like to challenge you to examine yourself. Is your attitude toward them indicative of Christ and the Holy Spirit who dwells in you? Cliche as it may be: What would Jesus do? What would His attitude be? Would he be saying that they're "off their rockers"? Or would He interact with them, attempt them to show His love? How can we best emulate, even when one is not present, our Lord and Savior?

I will quote you 3 times. First:

Well, it seems you've mellowed out just a bit anyway, Gee Dubya

I don't know if I have so much mellowed out.......as your first long post just provided me with information (from someone I like and trust) that I can use as a comparison to the information that came from those BBC pieces. Bluntly FSW.......I don't know much of anything about this whole *furry* thing. Um......it just does not *turn my crank* and I neither care about it nor do I want to find out more about it.

But IMO your post provided needed balance to me.

Second:

Anyway... I agree for the most part. Those who take their interests to extremes... ANY interests, whether they're furry or fantasy or sci-fi or whatever else... ANYONE who takes that interest to an extreme IS lost.


Agreed.

Third:

But again, I'd like to challenge you to examine yourself. Is your attitude toward them indicative of Christ and the Holy Spirit who dwells in you? Cliche as it may be: What would Jesus do? What would His attitude be? Would he be saying that they're "off their rockers"? Or would He interact with them, attempt them to show His love? How can we best emulate, even when one is not present, our Lord and Savior?

Again agreed. You'll get no argument from me. Point taken.

The media is, foremost, sensationalist. It is common practice for them to seek out the most extreme examples of all things to attract and keep an audience. They have no regard for the impact of their sensationalist stories on those they depict. I believe GW is right in that regard. I've come in contact with a fair number of furries, and none of them come anywhere close to even the tamest example in that feature.

Here's my question.


Being as most people who consider themselves furry are not as extreme as this (something I already knew), and the definition is merely limited to having a strong affinity for animals....why still be urgent to fit into the mold of this or that name/group? Irwin for example didn't feel the need to be something "special" in that way just because of his passion, neither do most women who are horse lovers, and so on. I myself am an outdoors person to a big extent and am always spending time that way and picking up different animals and reading and learning about them and so on and it's very nice for me. But I don't see how that would compell me to fit into such a club. It doesn't seem to make sense to have to label yourself UNLESS you're one of these extremeties. Besides the fact that I'm anti anything that takes your individuality away..

Spot-on.

It's the loudest minority.

Cunjo has pretty much nailed it.

For most people, I'm not sure it's about being something "special" OCI. For most people, it's getting together with a group of people who share the same interests and getting to know one another. Again, as Cunjo pointed out, the media is sensationalist and so people are judging furriness by the image that the media has placed into people's minds. It's not brought on by the need (at least for me) to be something special. Especially if one is a Christian, we understand that we ARE special already, because each one of us, individual though we are, is created in the image of God.

Quote:

Also, the sexual attractions to/sexualizing of cartoon animals is more than disturbing

I agree. HOWEVER, let me once again point out that this is not something that is limited to Furriness. While I'm not familiar with a lot of other sub-cultures, I'm fairly certain you'll find there is an aspect of this in EVERY sub-culture. People will use any excuse they can to engage in lewd sexual acts of some nature or another. That is the nature of our CULTURE, and an aspect that leaks down into various sub-cultures.

_________________

I think the thing that is weird to me is the whole alter identity thing. Immersing oneself in the animal realms and then sexualizing it is creepy. Even on the furry sites where it tells you what group is mating with what other group or fighting what other group seems extreme at times. We seem to becoming a culture that is not happy with our own selves so we become something else. Yes, it goes beyond furries but that was sort of the subject at hand.

You all sure bring a nice balance to things - kudos. Seriously - this has been a very interesting - and well thought out, discussion.

Great points made by all, and I agree.

It's rare OCI , ...but I agree with you on this one.

FSW - I don't want to offend you...and I don't know anything about your involvement.....but this kind of thing insults my intelligence and my sensibilities as a human being. Why do people go to these extremes?? What's the motivation? I GET the occassional convention or party that's just for fun, but the every day thing?!?!?

If it isn't one thing, it's another. I chalk this up to modern affluent (relatively) society. 'Western' society has all kinds
of goofy and deviant behavior because we have so much time on our hands. You just don't see this kind of thing in poorer and under-developed countries cause they are too busy working and making ends meet.

Maybe I'm off base...I'm willing to be corrected....

Of course they don't spend time on message boards fighting over whether it's death meal or metalcore. We all have things we fall into so I don't want to demean anyone here. There is just a weirdness here I can't really explain. I think OCI said it well.