Working on Sundays?

Joined : 19 Apr 2007 Posts : 206

Is it a sin to work on Sundays? This is a debate that has been raging for a long time,and i dont know what side to take. Some people believe that you should only work monday through Saturday (unless you work in a Hospital of course, while others state that thats an unrealistic goal in this world and cant realistically be done. I dont know what side to take because while it is a good idea to rest on the Sabbath, what if theres a worker who you want to witness to, and the only time it could be done is on Sunday? And how do entertainers/athletes fit in? After all, theyre essentially doing what they love and would do even without money, and several of them are devout Christians as well.

Age : 34 Joined : 06 Mar 2007 Posts : 3813

Wow!! This one is deep....

Firefighters, Police, Ambulance, hospitals, nursing homes, etc....these things need to exist and be manned. I think God understands that and honors that. Other things?? I don't know. We don't NEED food, gas, goods, etc...on Sunday if we plan with even small and effortless fore-sight. However, we Christians are a HUGE part of the problem when we go out to eat after Church, go to the movies on Sunday, go shopping.

Another question is....is Sunday really sacred? Does this apply to post-Christ time and life?? I'll let others wade in and help out. I KNOW people have thoughts and opinions in this.

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Oh, it's not all that 'deep' as you say. I'm in a hurry right now. Look for my response here tomorrow. I promise you, this will never be an issue for you again after I'm through explaining where most people's misunderstanding on this issue lies. Most people, pastors included are very ignorant of 2 concepts when they discuss this issue. Thus, they tragically suffer from a severe case of diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the brain.

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:58 pm

The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? Luke 13:15
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And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? Luke 14:5
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The way I see it is, if you need to work on the Sabbath(Saturday) in order to provide for your family then you not only should, but you have an obligation to. Futhermore what is the point in getting so caught up in the "law" about working on the Sabbath, which is Saturday, when most "Christians" these days do not even observe the Sabbath to begin with, they observe Sunday! Can you say hypocrisy?
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Rise up, O LORD, confront them, bring them down; rescue me from the wicked by your sword. Psalm 17:13

Age : 35 Joined : 07 Apr 2007 Posts : 2275

Romans 14:1-10 says:

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

We are not under any commandment to observe a Sabbath day. It was an ordinance for the Jews. Paul clearly teaches here that we are free from this.

However, in Mark 2:27-28, it says:

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

So, while we are under no obligation to observe a Sabbath day, the purpose of the Sabbath (a day of rest) was actually made by God for our benefit. Therefore, I encourage you to find one day per week where you take a break. Spend time playing. Spend time in prayer. For me, that happens to be Sunday. For you, it may be Thursday or Monday or whenever.

There's no reason at all for you to feel guilty because of working on Sundays. And no one in the church has any business trying to make you feel so. I've read scourge39's posts on this issue before, and trust me, he's gonna annihilate the arguments your church people may try to give you.

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:08 am

Could you add another day to the week? I can't find the time!

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:23 am

This is the gist of it, this is the part we should be mindful of.

[i]

Play it LOUD!! Age : 51 Joined : 06 Jan 2007 Posts : 11824

Good post by Angel. Twisted Evil

Took the words right out of my mouth. Twisted Evil

(And it felt weird too. Those little word suckers being pulled right out. Euuuuwww!!) Shocked

_________________
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One of the twins: I'm the one who likes it all....

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

I know that working on Sunday is a touchy subject for some Christians. Some pastors preach, rather dogmatically, I’m afraid, that this practice is forbidden in Scripture. Despite good intentions, and the fact that American businesses have historically closed down on Sunday in the past. A good, modern example of this would be Chick-fil-A, whose founder Truett Cathy requires all of their restaurant locations to shut down on Sunday. All good intentions aside, are actions like this really necessary or required according to Scripture? I think not. Allow me to explain.

First, what is the Sabbath? We first encounter the concept in Exodus 16. In verse 26 of this Chapter, we discover that it commemorates the period when God ‘rested,’ or more literally, ‘ceased’ from creating the universe on the seventh day. It never entails that all work is prohibited, but only work which takes an exhausting tool upon people and is exactly like the work they do Monday through Saturday. It’s important to remember that God instituted the Sabbath for the benefit of his people, whose limitations he understood all too well being an omniscient creator. Exodus 31:13 indicates that Sabbath observance was crucial if one wished to remain within covenant relationship with Yahweh, for observance of it served as a sign of one’s fellowship with him. To violate this part of God’s ceremonial law was to sever oneself from the believing community itself, which is why death is the penalty for its violation according to Exodus 35:2.

The book of Leviticus also adds to one’s understanding of the Sabbath. According to 16:31, it was used as a time for Israel to worship and prepare herself for the Day of Atonement, or Yom Kippur, not for personal satisfaction. Leviticus 16 reiterates some of the same concepts from Exodus 31 & 35. It is important to remember that the OT Law was given to Yahweh’s covenant people, Israel, not to all of humanity. Leviticus 26: 34-35 and 2 Chronicles 36:21 indicate that Israel’s failure to allow the land to observe its own ‘rest’ every seven years was one of the reasons for her future Exile. Numbers 28:9-10 indicates that ‘work,’ in the form of Temple sacrifices, was done on the Sabbath. Because the Sabbath commemorates Yahweh’s seventh day ‘rest,’ it was a reminder to Israel that she would one say enter into it as well.

The New Testament also helps us understand the concept of Sabbath. Matthew 12 indicates that Jesus’ miracles on the Sabbath served to remind the Pharisees, “it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:12, NIV). This is modeled throughout each of the four Gospels as Jesus reminds the Pharisees that the Sabbath was intended not for self-gratification, but for doing good to others. Interestingly, Jesus declares himself ‘Lord of the Sabbath’ and even shows how the disciple’s eating grain was similar to David and his men eating consecrated bread that was intended only for Levites (cf. Luke 6:1-5). Acts 13, 16, 17 and 18 indicate that much of Paul’s preaching took place in the Jewish synagogue on the Sabbath. Acts 15 indicates that the Jerusalem Council only imposed the following parts of the Law onto Gentile Christians: “You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”(15:29 NIV)

The real decisive factor for our purposes is the distinction between the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and the Lord’s Day (Sunday). The Roman Catholic Church decreed the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day to be synonymous. Scripture never conjoins the two, but instead, seems to distinguish between them. The Lord’s Day being Sunday, which commemorates Christ’s resurrection. The only occurrence of the phrase ‘the Lord’s Day’ (kyriake hemera) is in Revelation 1:10, where John states, “On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet” (NIV). This phrase became the title given to the commemoration of Christ’s resurrection by the early Church.

Paul says in Colossians 2:8-23:

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (NIV)

For Paul, the observance of the OT ceremonial law is irrelevant because Christ fulfilled it. This included Sabbath observances, dietary laws (cf Mark 7:18-20), festivals, etc.

Christ’s crucifixion removed the burden of the OT law from his people. Jesus describes his mission by stating in Matthew 5:17: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (NIV) Paul further elaborates this point by saying:

Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him, the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. (Ephesians 2:11-22, NIV)

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews redefines the concept of Sabbath (for his Jewish audience, no less, who were on the verge of reneging their recently newfound Christian faith in exchange for full-fledged Judaism and an end to persecution. He picks up the theme of a future Spiritual ‘Sabbath rest’ for God’s people, which is what the OT Sabbath ritual predicts. He says:

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: _ "Today, if you hear his voice, _ do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. (Hebrews 4:1-13, NIV)

Therefore, since Christians who have believed the Gospel have entered their ‘Spiritual rest,’ which they will fully realize at the Second Coming, they are no longer bound by the Law, their sins are atoned for perpetually and eternally as long as they persevere in their faith. Thus, every day is consecrated to God and should be used to glorify him by doing good to others. Paul says in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” (NIV) We are empowered by the Holy Spirit now to do the types of things our Lord did on the Sabbath throughout every day of our lives. Any work we do for others, regardless of what day of the week it is, is now an act of worship that no longer requires that a special day of atonement be observed by us.

It is unnecessary to set aside one day for personal atonement, thanks to the finished work of our great high priest, Jesus Christ (Hebrews 9:24-26). This is why Sabbath observance is no longer necessary for us today. We celebrate the resurrection of the only one who ever did, or could fully observe every demand of the OT Law, of which Sabbath observance, is part, on Sunday (The Lord’s Day).

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:48 pm

hmmmm,the spirit vs the letter of the Law...

I think there is something to be said about setting aside time from one's work and specifically focusing on Scripture reading, prayer, focused familiy and/or recreation time, etc. It is to the soul what a washcloth and warm water is to a dirty sweaty face.

When we are involved in our vocation and focusing on making our wage, THAT is where our mind is focused.

I do believe there is wisdom in the OT counsel to do exactly this and it is an excercise of faith, not just a Law, similar to tithing; i.e. see what G-d will do if you honour him in this.To take one's focus off of making a living and enjoying with a grateful heart for longer than 5 or 10 mins what G-d has already done and is doing in our lives is:

1. a recognition that all we have and are is a result of G-d's grace and Providence, not how hard we work or what awesome people we are and humans beings tend to get this and many other things EASILY twisted.

2. Ceasing from our own labour and entering into His rest is a gift and something that workaholics and greedy businesses need to learn. It's like anything else...G-d made the rules for this Universe, this world and we do well to acknowledge that and do our best by His grace to live within those rules and not ignore any. This is no exception. If one has to work, then they do but the Idea and habit of Sabbath does not have to be discarded in the process.

Everything in the decalogue (BIGG 10) is for our benefit so I don't see how it should be ignored/negated to this degree simply because we are 'free' of the Law, nor does it have to become a Law. That part of it is on us.

For the non-Jew it does not have to be any particular day.
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only symbols can be twisted ,burned,spat on etc.NOTHING truly Holy can be desecrated.....

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Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Age : 35 Joined : 07 Apr 2007 Posts : 2275

There are folks in my church who believe that the idea of the Sabbath, as a benefit to us, should permeate all areas of our lives. They farm their land for 6 years and in the 7th year, don't farm it. Others who own businesses push and grow and aggressively pursue new opportunities on a 6 year schedule. The 7th year, they "rest" their business by simply fulfilling only what's necessary to keep the business up and running.

Its been interesting hearing the results: almost all of them have prospered for doing so. I don't believe for a second that this was God rewarding obedience to a command; but rather it was men taking advantage of a God-given principle for living that has worked just as the Scriptures say.

Again, its not a mandate at all, but it was meant for our good, so we should try to take advantage of it. But it doesn't have to be Sunday or any other day. And if you choose not to do it all, that's okay too. Just understand that you may be missing out on a potential blessing.

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:16 pm

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:42 pm

Subject: Re: Working on Sundays? Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:13 am

I agree with most of what has been said. I'm reminded that God made the Sabbath (or whichever day you choose) for us not vice-versa. Balance is the key, if you're working to avoid church / fellowship / time with family / time with Jesus then you are losing out on that which gives us strength to face life. If you get all legalistic about it then you are losing the blessing and freedom that Jesus died for.
I think church is so important. I think if you don't work, you shouldn't eat. I hate it when those conflict, but they do from time to time (and I love to eat out on Sundays)
I love that the Lord always addresses out hearts. What is our drive for, to work and have stuff or to know Him and take every opportunity to grow. As a church worker (worship leader and children's worker) Sunday and Wednesday night are work for me, I have to always remind myself not to get over-emphasized on 'good works' like leading songs to the point where I'm not focused on Jesus in spite of being right there in the church.
It's all about your attitude, balance and understanding. I know I don't have room to get offended at other people's church attendance, I just miss them when they aren't there. (I think God does too)
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"This is a happy occasion, let's not bicker and argue about ooo killed ooo!"

Joined : 13 Apr 2007 Posts : 932

In the Pentateuch, the Hebrew word "melachah" is only used in three ways: (1) To describe the work of creation that God did on the first six days. (2) To describe the work required in the building of the tabernacle in Exodus 35. (3) To describe the work that the Jews were to abstain from on the Sabbath.

The prohibition against "melachah", that is to say, "creative work", on the Sabbath first occurs in Exodus 35, where Moses describes the work required in the building of the tabernacle. It is in this very same chapter that Moses records: On the Seventh Day, you shall do no "melachah".

The standard rabbinical interpretation teaches that this Mosaic prohibition was directly tied to the work required in the building of the tabernacle, and from this, the ancient Hebrew sages enacted a list of 39 Forbidden Works, or "39 Melachot" as they are often called, which were all drawn from the text of Exodus 35.

1. Planting
2. Plowing
3. Reaping
4. Binding sheaves
5. Threshing
6. Winnowing
7. Selecting
8. Grinding
9. Sifting
10. Kneading
11. Baking
12. Shearing wool
13. Washing wool
14. Beating wool
15. Dyeing wool
16. Spinning
17. Weaving
18. Making two loops
19. Weaving at least two threads
20. Separating two threads
21. Tying
22. Untying
23. Sewing at least two stitches
24. Tearing for the purpose of sewing
25. Trapping
26. Slaughtering
27. Flaying
28. Salting meat
29. Curing hide
30. Scraping hide
31. Cutting hide up
32. Writing two or more letters
33. Erasing in order to write two or more letters
34. Building
35. Tearing something down for a constructive purpose
36. Extinguishing a fire
37. Transferring a fire
38. Putting the finishing touch on an object
39. Removing an object from one domain to another

As was the case with most rabbinical law, these "39 Melachot" were merely intended to establish a boundary around Moses' general prohibition, for the ancient rabbis wanted to take care that their disciples did not founder on any precept of the Mosaic law.

Notice that the melachot were never meant to supercede Moses' commandment... they were instead designed to mark out a safe zone, serving as a hedge, or a safety fence, if you will, that was to be maintained around the Mosaic prohibition of Exodus 35, which states: On the Seventh Day, you shall do no "melachah".

In Matthew 12:1-8, we find that Jesus' disciples broke the 6th melachot, that being the prohibition against "winnowing" (which refers to the separation of chaff from grain).

Incidentally, many commentators make the case that Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees, in this passage, for their adherence to rabbinical law. However, if you read the passage carefully, this actually does not seem to be the case at all.

Instead, we find that Jesus is essentially exempt from Moses' prohibition, "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath".

In this way, it seems that the Pharisees were being rebuked, not for their adherence to the rabbinical code, but for their refusal to acknowledge that Jesus was God.

Consider the following question: Is God Almightly subject to the restraints of the Sabbath prohibitions? Hardly.

And so it was with Jesus.

On account of Jesus being God, we discover that Christ Jesus was completely exempt from the 39 Melachot, just as he was completely exempt from Moses' general prohibition of Exodus 35.

And thusly, Jesus' disciples were also exempt from the rabbinical law on this matter because they were operating under the jurisdiction of Christ Jesus.

By the way, on a theological note, it is worth noting that only Jesus' disciples are said to have been guilty of picking the heads of grain. Notice that Jesus is never said to have exercised his own authority to live above the rabbinical code, although he clearly possessed the authority to do so.

Personally, I find this to be one of the most intriguing passages of Scripture, and in case anyone has missed it, this is one of those instances in the Bible where Jesus is fully affirming his Godhood. There is no doubt that the Pharisees interpretted Jesus' claim as sheer blasphemy, for we read in Matthew 12:14 that "the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus."

When ever we come across a nuance in the Gospel that might otherwise go unnoticed, the knee-jerking reaction of the Pharisees should always draw us in for a closer look.

We find another example of the Forbidden Works discussed in John 5, where the man who had been healed was confronted for breaking the 39th melachot, the prohibition against "removing an object from one domain to another". During this confrontation, the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat."

But again, we find that the man's actions were fully justified on this occasion, for he was operating under the jurisdiction of Christ Jesus.

Joe

Age : 32 Joined : 20 Jun 2007 Posts : 379

Hmm...this is a very interesting topic. Good pick!
I believe if you need to work on Sunday, you should, but I believe employers should be flexible and allow you to attend church on Sundays or other holy days. If not, he is committing religious discrimination and you have rights under the Equal Opportunity act.
As for me, I do little work around the house on Sundays after church, but mostly that is a day for chilling out as far as I'm concerned. Sadly, I have missed church a few times in the last few weeks because of travel and because last Sunday was a contemporary service (which I do not like but I won't criticize anyone who does.).
In short...employers need to be more flexible. Like us, they all answer to God.
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Joined : 13 Apr 2007 Posts : 28

I agree that we are not obligated to follow the Sabbath and I believe the New Testament is clear about that, but there is something different that I believe that is somewhat related to it. I personally find it hard to go to stores etc. on a Sunday. The reason is not because it's the Sabbath, but because I feel it's not a good thing for these stores to be open on Sunday and I don't want to be a part of supporting it. The reason why I don't like the stores being open on Sunday is because for people that have to work, that basically means they can't go to church. For example, all the restaurants that are open on Sunday mornings/afternoons, these workers can't go to church. If we as a society didn't have to have restaraunts, shopping malls, etc. open on Sundays then tons more people would be able to go to a Sunday service.

Yes obviously there are church services on Saturdays or people can go to Bible studies in the middle of the week or whatever, but the majority of church services are held on Sunday mornings.

So for example, I'm sure there are tons of people out there that have to work on Sundays, but they can't go to church with their families because they have to work. Hospitals, police, etc. are a different story because they are a necessary thing, but I personally feel like I don't want to support restaraunts being opened on a Sunday etc. I'm sure there are tons of people out there that aren't Christians that get invited to church (or that want to go to church), but they can't because they have to work. It can definitely be used as a "convenient" way in their mind for somebody who the Holy Spirit is convicting about going to church to say "I can't - I have to work". And I think Satan can try to use it as blockage in people's life as well who might want to seek God, but they don't really pursue it that much because they might think "yeah it would be nice to go to church, but hey I work, so that's that I guess".

It's the greed of businesses (in my opinion...some would say it's a good thing for them to be open due to convenience) that is causing this to be the way it is and have pretty much all stores open on Sundays now (where I live anyway).

From what I've been told, 30 years ago barely any stores were open on Sundays, but now the majority of them are open - it has been a huge change and shift in a very short period of time.

I want to clarify though that I am perfect at following this conviction all the time. I also don't want to make it some sort of thing I have to do in every situation like it is some sort of Law. i.e. I do believe that God could want me to go to a restaurant on a Sunday (an example would be to have lunch with a person who God wants me to talk to and minister to etc.), so I try not to make it some legalistic thing. But in general I am under the conviction that I don't like to go to restaurants, shopping, etc. on a Sunday.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Age : 32 Joined : 20 Jun 2007 Posts : 379