Jesus' Return

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Sir Shred A Lot wrote:

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

That's 'soon' according to his timetable, not ours.

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

The apostle Peter gave this poignant response to those who doubt Christ's Second Coming:

3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. (2 Peter 3:3-10, NIV)

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1477

Wouldn't that be assuming we are in the last days?
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Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Before the onset of Dispensational Premillennialism, the Church unanimously understood 'the Last Days' as referring to the entire Church age, beginning at Pentecost and culminating with the Second Coming.

This is why Luke records Peter during his Pentecost sermon as saying:

14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning! 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17" 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heaven above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.'[c]
(Acts 2:14-21, NIV)

This portion of Peter's Pentecost sermon is traditionally understood to be a synopsis or summary of the Spirit's entire work throughout human history from Pentecost (Acts 2:17-18 ) to the Second Coming with its accompanying final judgment (Acts 2:19-21).

Some claim that the modern Pentecostal-Charismatic movement inaugurated the 'Last Days' in the 1900's This notion has been largely rejected even from people within the movement itself. I see it as an issue of pride on the part of those who still trumpet that argument (which are very few), not sound Bible interpretation.

I believe we've been in the 'last days' for 2000+ years and will remain in them until Christ returns. We're waiting for the Second Coming, not for the Last Days to begin.

Hence, I believe, as do most non-Dispensationalists, that the reference to the last days in Peter's epistle describes events that have been taking place since the time of its writing (i.e. the scoffing) and will continue throughout human history until they are interrupted by the Second Coming, which will be unexpected from the standpoint of non-Christians.

Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 1077

Joined : 01 Jan 2007 Posts : 1143

"I believe we've been in the 'last days' for
2000+ years and will remain in them until Christ returns. We're waiting
for the Second Coming, not for the Last Days to begin."

Thanks for sharing this, bro. That's pretty much how I felt about the subject all along. Smile

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Master of the Axe Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 510

Play it LOUD!! Age : 51 Joined : 06 Jan 2007 Posts : 11824

Heath (when he was here) said:

Age : 57 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 249

I have come back full circle and I believe in a pretrib rapture now. I also think that we may be on the verge of some very exciting times.

One of the real problems with the Left Behind Series is that it is not scriptural. I really don't think those left behind are going to be considering coming to Christ. It isn't going to happen like in the series. Once the church is out of the way and the anti-christ can come on the scene II Thessalonians 2:11 says that God will sind upon them a deluding influence that they might believe what is false.

Mr. Wizard... I will send you a PM, I had you in mind when I wrote this.

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Age : 20 Joined : 21 Jul 2007 Posts : 2022

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Man in Morph Age : 40 Joined : 08 Apr 2007 Posts : 8626

Thus the problem with always trying to pinpoint Christ's return. We are not here to try to pick the proper date, we are supposed to be light and salt in a dark world.

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375

Some pre-tribbers frequently love to dissect Matthew 24:36, which says:

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (NIV)

They say foolish things like, "The verse only says that we won't know the day or the hour, but nothing about our inability to determine the month or the year. " I've heard each of my former pastors make that statement as though it were Gospel from the pulpit. Those who say things like that are reading a modern understanding of what constitutes a day and an hour into the passage. The Greek words found in the verse, which are hemeras and horas respectively, both denote an unspecified period of time, not 24 hours and 60 minutes. Jesus is using the most general words possible to describe the Second Coming in order to preserve the fact that it is to remain a mystery until it occurs. One simply cannot rely on an English translation of this passage in order to understand it properly.

Joined : 01 Jan 2007 Posts : 1143

We just have to be ready every day. Smile

_________________
As I breathe anew You are my precious vitality
As I breathe again You are my everlasting source

Endless Funeral - A Second Beginning

www.purevolume.com/endlessfuneral - DOWNLOAD THE WHOLE ALBUM THERE

Age : 57 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 249

This pre-tribber does not set dates. I do think, however that Scripture does give us prophetic passages that gives us an idea when the last days will be. I personally think, that we should be on the lookout now. Ezekiel 38, and 39 give us clues that I and many others think have already been fulfilled or could be fulfilled soon. I don't know for sure when, and I would be a fool to say so, but the world situation is sure shaping up that way. And indeed Matthew 24 is a key passage. It gives us an idea of what the world will be like in the last days, but it also tells us which generation will see the last days, and we are in that generation. It started in 1948 when Israel became a nation. The problem is (a.) we don't know how long the generation spoken of here is for sure, and (b.)scripture is clear that no one of knows when Christ will return.

Scourge 39-- you asked about the 144,000. Certainly they do not come from Rayford Steele or whatever his name was. As I stated earlier, after the rapture scripture tells us that these people will not come to Christ because God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false. The Left Behind series indicates a second chance. 2 Thessalonians 2 says otherwise. -- I would suggest that we all be ready every day as endy said above, because you aren't going to get a second chance if you are left behind.

The 144,000 are talked about in Revelation 7:3. They are not the left behind as in the series. An angel descends to earth and seals the 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Israel.

Age : 33 Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 2375