LOL... I'm listening to that Gordon Fee lecture right now and at about the 13:30 mark he says of the Richard Bauckham book I recommended earlier:

"From my perspective, it is absolutely the best book on the Revelation that has ever been written."


Hey... I guess I'm in good company.

Yes, you are. Richard Bauckham's book, The Theology of the Book of Revelation, is the best overall book for understanding the central point of Revelation. Beale used it as a secondary textbook for his Revelation class. I also recommend it to any here who are struggling to understand Revelation.

I really hope that Fee asks Bauckham to write a replacement for Robert Mounces Revelation volume in NICNT, since Fee edits the series and several replacement volumes are currently underway. Mounce's commentary is outdated when compared to Beale, Osborne, Aune, and Smalley. Although Bauckham recently retired from teaching, I hope he'll still be writing.

Hopefully, the A/G will find a good scholar to replace Trask. Maybe then the A/G can take the necessary steps to wean its congregants off of John Nelson Darby's breast. Apparently, the Church of God, Cleveland, TN is making real strides in that area.

There has been so much said here it gets confusing.Obviously it is you Shred that is taking a condescending tone.I try to be honest in what I say and so I will say I am skeptic in what you and Scourge are presenting.I would think that if you ,or if you have in your possession materials or articles that solve the ancient mystery of Revelation, you might be a little more Christlike in your tone as this is a very important and relevant discussion.Since Scourge seems to be your friend,maybe you should contemplate on what his name means.This is a very serious subject and to me should carry a heavy feeling,like Jesus in the garden.We are talking about millions of deceived souls here,Christianity without mercy and compassion is akin to a church of the dead.As for your NASCAR comment,as I said,it is a fact and if you read thru this thread you will see at least one person that has already validated my statement.I may be from Texas, but not everybody here is as red-necked as some perceive us to be.I have read, and own several books that give credible evidence to the sort of statements I have made.I have a saying and though it is simple it illustrates the weight of the sins of the world........"If the "truth" isn't the Truth,then it is a lie."

I used the term"naive" in the sense of that it sounded as though you were giving a "greenlight" so to speak ,to the idea that we should all just sit back and relax and let the obviously lying gov. and certain private org. do things without some protest, or at least speaking of it.My point about the big three, was to illustrate how many American companys have ties to Nazi Germany in some way or another.Contrary to many peoples belief,Nazism was not defeated in WWII,it is an idealism of" might makes right,the old,the sick,the disabled,do not matter".This is an attitude that is prevalent in American society,more subtle of course ,but still there.

Hey guys, thought I'd chime in and say that I have been reading this thread but not commenting because I simply have almost no knowledge on this subject. Thanks for the links/resources, I will be checking those out.

@ Sabb Steve: No offense man, so don't take this the wrong way but judging by your posts it seems like you are speaking Ancient Chinese and Shred is speaking Albanian ... I don't think you are even addressing the same issues ...

Sir Shred A Lot wrote:

Quote:

If we could bring it back to the issue of eschatology, I'd love to talk about it more, fully realizing that we don't need to "convert" one another when discussing it.

I second this suggestion.....

Suggestion noted.Statement:My head hurts.LOL!

I too feel a pain sometimes on this site. We are strongly opinionated and express it as such. So welcome to the club, and I hope you realize most on here are pretty good people. I think Steve, you would do well to follow up on some of those threads listed before. Fee especially I find easy to understand and presents his eschatology clearly and without too much judgement. It may not change your mind but it would be a learning experience. It'd be great to have an educational discussion on the subject but like Shred said, it really isn't the most important issue on theological issues. It is hard to wade through all the info that is out there but I will say, pre-trib is not the traditional church view yet in this country, you'd think it was just about the only view.

I think it was just that I was so amazed at the reaction and the tone that it came in.I was just thinking that it was a good thing that it was a bit more skeptical old son of a gun that posted here, instead of some kid that read that article after reading an old copy of Late Great Planet Earth,would have kinda been like spiritual shell shock,you know.

I hear you.

Quote:

Late Great Planet Earth

The funniest end times book ever written. Except maybe 666 and 1000.

I really am at a point in my life where I am open to discussing things,but honestly I don't have a lot of time to.If anybody could basically summarize what is being theorized I really would appreciate it.I have always been a rebel of sorts i.e."too bad for the "good ",too good for the bad".I have raised more than one eyebrow before by saying that caution should be exercised, and that maybe" we shouldn't put all of our eggs in the rapture basket. "Wait...........listen...... Was that a gun I heard being loaded!

You mean they hadn't read the Left Behind series? Strange......

After wading through this entire thread just now.........

Points:

1. I don't believe in a *Rapture* (much) anymore. I don't care if it is a pre-, post, or mid-trib event. It is none IMO, because it (probably) ain't going to happen.....as most Americans view that event known as *The Rapture*. If I am wrong.....then I get a free ride upwards, been wrong before. If I am correct.....then I am not going to be fooled and disappointed when it does not happen. A lot of American Christians will be.

2. Here is an incontrovertible eschatological statement: Tick--Tock.