The Christian Metal Realm - Guitar Chat (lessons, gear talk and questions)

Just found this thread, so catching up here. Excellent stuff though, thanks for sharing your experience (and encouragement)

I'm like aldatndensum, been playing for years (i actually lead worship at our church) but when it comes to leads, well . . . lets say i can play chords.

Looking forward to being to express myself in some small riffs here and there (not gonna kick over an amp and start shredding all over the front pews)
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Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

Cool, to know. Well I will try and focus on you beginner shredders. Very Happy

Joined : 01 Jan 2007 Posts : 1048

Thanks, Jon! That's what I was guessing.

I have more questions :

How do I tell what kind of scale I am playing in a solo?

:-)
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As I breathe anew You are my precious vitality
As I breathe again You are my everlasting source

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Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

Joined : 01 Jan 2007 Posts : 1048

Lol. I'll have to look more into it but I'm confused. I think I play a lot of *Lydian* scale.
_________________
As I breathe anew You are my precious vitality
As I breathe again You are my everlasting source

Endless Funeral - A Second Beginning

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I have been working on those warm up exercises . . . so sad to realize that I might be able to play chords pretty easily, yet my ring finger and pinky are quite less dexterious (sp?)

I appreciate the practice runs though, after a week noticing a little more speed and accuracy. Just got to beat those two fingers into obeying me!

Thanks for the help!
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"This is a happy occasion, let's not bicker and argue about ooo killed ooo!"

Age : 34 Joined : 06 Mar 2007 Posts : 3219

This is much appreciated....I still work on the original lesson daily and my once useless pinky is getting some life. These are great and now I plan on fitting in some of the more recent lessons. Thanks!

Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

Ok, some smaller different exersises. Loop these patterns I give you. Start slow and speed up. Remember to alternate your picking.

1.

E-------------------l
B-------------------l
G-------5-7-5-----l
D--5-7---------7--l
A-------------------l
E-------------------l

2.

E-----------------------l
B-----------------------l
G--5-7------5-7-------l
D-------5-7------5-7--l
A-----------------------l
E-----------------------l

3.

E-------------------------l
B-------------------------l
G--------------5---------l
D--7-5----5-7----7-5--l
A-------7----------------l
E-------------------------l

4.

E-------------------l
B----------5--------l
G--5-7-8----8-7--l
D-------------------l
A-------------------l
E-------------------l

Very Happy

Joined : 01 Jan 2007 Posts : 1048

_________________
As I breathe anew You are my precious vitality
As I breathe again You are my everlasting source

Endless Funeral - A Second Beginning

www.purevolume.com/endlessfuneral - DOWNLOAD THE WHOLE ALBUM THERE

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1407

Hey! Just thought I'd stop in and say to everyone here. I have never
had a guitar teacher, and I've been playing about 2.5 years now. So I
am no virtuoso, but I wanted to say that about 3 months into my
playing, guitarhoops created this thread on the old CMR, and I used a
routine of these exact practice + warm up exercises daily for about 6
months or so. They helped SO MUCH. So first of all, thanks to you,
hoops, for your direction back then, and to everyone else ... practice
these exercises!! They are extremely helpful. Here are some others I
came up with when these ones became easy and natural: try doing the
same exercises but add string skipping. For example:

|-----5-7-----------------------------------------------5-7-----------
|-------------5-7------------------------------5-7--------------------
|-5-7-----------------5-7-------------5-7----------5-7--------------------
|---------5-7-----------------5-7---------5-7----------------------------
|-----------------5-7-------------5-7---------------------------------
|-------------------------5-7---------------------------------------

OR

|-----5-7-----------------------------5-7-------------
|-------------5-7-------------5-7---------------------
|---------------------5-7---------------------------
|-5-7-----------------------------5-7-----------------
|---------5-7-------------5-7-------------------------
|-----------------5-7-------------------------------

and the same for his other exercises. Adding extra string skipping really adds to the challenge.

Also try practicing these exercises:
1) different places on the neck. Go 1-3 one day and 15-17 the next ... just to get aquainted with varying fret sizes.
2) backwards! Try playing 7-5 instead of 5-7.
3) different finger combinations. As a beginner, try using all these combinations:

|-5-7-|-6-8-|-5-7-|
|-----|------|-----|
|-----|------|-----|
|-----|------|-----|
|-----|------|-----|
|-----|------|-----|
--1-3---3-4---1-4--

and when that gets easy, there are many more that you can try out.

Here's a cool warm up that I got from an article written by Marty Friedman:

|---------------------------------------------4-6-7------------------------------------------
|--------------------------------3-5-6---------------------5-7-8--------------------------------
|-------------------2-4-5--------------4-6-7----------------------------6-8-9----------------------
|-------1-3-4-------------3-5-6---------------------5-7-8-----------------------------7-9-10-----------
|-------------2-4-5-----------------------------------------------6-8-9-------------------------
|-1-3-4------------------------------------------------------------------------7-9-10------------

and so on and so forth until you get to the highest fret on your
guitar, then go backwards with the same pattern. This one took FOREVER
for me to get decent at, it still hangs me up sometimes. Also try it
with 1-2-4 and 1-3-5 finger combinations.

Lastly, here's a quick warm up exercise that I got from a Joe Satriani video.

|--------------6--3---------------------------
|-------5--5--5--4--7--4--------------------
|-4--1--4--3--4--5--6--5--8-5-----------------
|-3--2--3--4--3--6--5--6--7-6----------------
|-2--3--2--5--------4--7--6-7--------------
|-1--4---------------------5-8----------------

again, so on and so forth till you get to the highest fret, then come
back down using the same pattern. I like this one a lot because it
warms up all your fingers at once.
_________________
... a chill rises from the soil ...
... and contaminates the air ...
... suddenly ...
... life has new meaning ...

Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

Thanks for the post dOOM. I'm glad that my old post on the old CMR helped out. Glad to see you post some more exercises.

Master of the Axe Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 514

Okay, I have a question.

In order for me to make arpeggios, I need to know the root notes of a chord. How do I figure out what they are.

I only know Am, A C E, lol.

Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

If you are play major or minor arpeggios in standard formation. The one octave on the thinnest three strings the note on the second string is the root. The two octave arpeggios the note on the 5th string is the root note. Smile

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1407

You should probably start by learning arpeggio shapes. Arpeggios are simply shapes across the fretboard, in the same way that scales are. So taking the following A-maj scale:

o|---|-o-|---|-o-|-x-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|
o|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-x-|---|-o-|
-|-o-|-x-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|---|
o|---|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-x-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|
x|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-x-|
o|---|-o-|---|-o-|-x-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|

would yield the following A-maj arpeggio:

o|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|-o-|
-|---|-o-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|
-|---|-x-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|
-|---|-o-|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|---|-o-|---|
x|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|-o-|-x-|
o|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|-o-|

and the following F#-min scale:
o|---|-x-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|
o|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|
-|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|
o|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|
o|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-x-|---|-o-|-o-|
o|---|-x-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|---|-o-|-o-|---|-o-|

would yield the following F#-min arpeggio:

-|---|-x-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|
-|---|-o-|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|-o-|---|---|
-|---|-o-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|
-|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|-o-|---|
o|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|---|-x-|---|---|-o-|
-|---|-x-|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|-o-|---|---|---|

So you see, arpeggios are constructed in the same way that chords are constructed, and can be done for any root note in any mode. I assume you know how to construct chords, if you don't then this is probably all gibberish to you ... so let me know ...

The best way to know what the root note is is to memorize the major, minor, and diminished arpeggio shapes. Then you can easily tell what your root note is just based on the shape you are playing. So if you see:

|---------------7-10-|
|-------------8------|
|-----------7--------|
|-------5-9----------|
|-----5--------------|
|-3-7----------------|

then you know you are playing a G-maj chord. And if you see:

|-------------5-9-|
|-----------6-----|
|---------7-------|
|-------7---------|
|---5-8-----------|
|-5---------------|

then you know you are playing a D-min chord.

What's cool about arpeggios is that any of the seven major modes will yield one of the three shapes (maj, min, dim), so you don't have to memorize seven shapes to go with seven modes. This is why each of the modes, though different, is called a major mode or minor mode. It has to do with whether that mode has a flat 3rd or not. So if you are playing in a phrygian mode, for example, the arpeggio that goes with that mode is the exact same minor arpeggio that would go with a dorian or aeolian mode. This simplifies things a great deal IMO and makes it easier to fly around teh fretboard and still easily keep track of what you are playing.

As I mentioned before, I am still a novice (relatively) and I am learning just like you. So guitarhoops will probably have his own set of advice when he walzes through here next. Let me know if you have any questions about what I said in this post, or if I didn't quite answer the question you were asking, let me know that also.
_________________
... a chill rises from the soil ...
... and contaminates the air ...
... suddenly ...
... life has new meaning ...

Age : 37 Joined : 02 Jan 2007 Posts : 418

I think dOOM has got the idea although I'm not sure about the X and O's game you were playing in your post. lol!

Sorry, just having fun. Very Happy

I think those charts can be overwelming but I understand what you are displaying.

I am going to show you the shape of the Major and Minor Two Octave Arpeggio's in chart form. The numbers are the fingers you use to play that note. You can play these shapes anywhere on the neck. These are the most common shapes. There are others for the same arpeggio's. The root notes for these arpeggio's are on the B and A strings. The numbers are bold. The flatten third dOOM was talking about is on the E and the D string for the minor arpeggio. The numbers for those one are in red.

Major Two Octave Arpeggio Shape.

E|---|-1-|---|---|-4-|---|
B|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|
G|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|
D|---|---|---|-3-|---|---|
A|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|
E|---|---|---|---|---|---|

Minor Two Octave Arpeggio Shape.

E|---|-1-|---|---|---|-4-|---|
B|---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|
G|---|---|-1-|---|---|---|---|
D|---|---|---|-2-|---|---|---|
A|---|---|---|---|---|-4-|---|
E|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|

The hardest part about playing a sweep arpeggio is the picking part. If you have any questions then just ask. Very Happy

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1407

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1407

BTW, those two maj/min shapes that hoops posted are also the two shapes I started with ... also try playing them with the roots on the D string for a slightly extended shape. I like to play an arpeggio while visualizing the mode underneath so that I can break in and out of arpeggios/scale runs when improvising.

Like I said, experimentation is the way to go if you ask me. I've been fast becoming a theory nut over the past year or so if you guys couldn't tell. Music truly is the one of the best things in the world!
_________________
... a chill rises from the soil ...
... and contaminates the air ...
... suddenly ...
... life has new meaning ...

Master of the Axe Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 514

Master of the Axe Joined : 06 Apr 2007 Posts : 514

Age : 22 Joined : 04 Jun 2007 Posts : 1407

Basic chords are constructed from three notes only. They are made from the root note, the 3rd interval, and the 5th interval from a scale. So, a major chord would be constructed from the root, major third, and fifth, and a minor chord would be constructed from the root, minor third, and fifth. This minor third is the flattened third that hoops pointed out above. Take a C-major scale (for simplicity's sake):

C-D-E-F-G-A-B

This is a major scale, meaning that if you play the root note (C), skip D, play the third note E, skip F, and play the fifth note G, you have played what is called a C-major triad. So for instance, if you wanted to make an E major triad, you would start with the E-major scale:

E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-Eb

your E-major triad would be E-G#-B. Does this make sense?
In tab form:

C-maj scale:
|---------------------|
|---------------------|
|---------------4-5-|
|--------3-5-7------|
|-3-5-7-------------|
|---------------------|

C-maj triad with added octave:
|--------------------------------|
|--------------------------------|
|---------5---------------------|
|------5------------------------|
|-3-7--------OR--3-7-10-15-|
|--------------------------------|

E-maj scale:
|--------------------|
|--------------------|
|--------------------|
|---------------1-2-|
|--------0-2-4-----|
|-0-2-4------------|

E-maj triad with added octave:
|------------------------------|
|------------------------------|
|------------------------------|
|---------2--------------------|
|------2-----------------------|
|-0-4--------OR--0-4-7-12-|

The principle is the same with a minor scale. The minor scale is different from the major scale in that it has the flattened third mentioned above as well as a flattened 6th and 7th, though this does not affect the basic triad since the 6th and 7th are not played. Take an A-min scale:

A-B-C-D-E-F-G

In the same way as above, take the root (A), the third (C), and the fifth (E) to get your triad. You'll notice when you play it, the third is one half step lower than in a major triad. This is what makes it a minor triad.

A-min scale
|--------------------|
|--------------------|
|---------------0-2-|
|--------0-2-3-------|
|-0-2-3--------------|
|--------------------|

A-min triad with added octave:
|------------------------------|
|------------------------------|
|---------2--------------------|
|------2-----------------------|
|-0-3--------OR--0-3-7-12-|
|------------------------------|

This is the basis for basic chords and arpeggios. If you play these triads one note at a time, you are playing an arpeggio. If you play them all at once, you are playing a chord. Notice that the chords you said you knew before are ALL made in this same way:

A-maj barre chord:
|-0-----5th-E-----------|
|-2-----major-3rd-C#-|
|-2-----root-A----------|
|-2-----5th-E-----------|
|-0-----root-A----------|
|-0-----5th-E-----------|

A-min barre chord:
|-0-----5th-E----------|
|-1-----minor-3rd-C--|
|-2-----root-A---------|
|-2-----5th-E----------|
|-0-----root-A---------|
|-0-----5th-E----------|

C-maj inverted chord:
|-0-----major-3rd-E--|
|-1-----root-C---------|
|-0-----5th-G----------|
|-2-----major-3rd-E--|
|-3-----root-C---------|
|-3-----5th-G----------|

E-min open barre chord:
|-0-----root-E---------|
|-0-----5th-B----------|
|-0-----minor-3rd-G--|
|-2-----root-E---------|
|-2-----5th-B----------|
|-0-----root-E---------|

*As you probably guessed, all you need to do to make this E chord a major chord is to sharpen the minor third above to play a G# instead of G.

As hoops said, it is probably best to start learning the shapes before the theory. But as time goes on this will all become more natural and internalized, and it is good to know while you are learning the shapes so that you can recognize where the notes are coming from.
_________________
... a chill rises from the soil ...
... and contaminates the air ...
... suddenly ...
... life has new meaning ...