Hello All...

After reading through this and that goofball's website, I thought I would chime in on this one...

Many of you know that I have spent the last 10 years being an avid student of Kaballah and other esoteric studies... Merely for my own personal growth and knowledge of what seems to be an alarming trend of young people's interest in occultic type things...

In the early 80's, Metal was accused of being a main stream carrier of alerting a new generation to the old ancient ways of witchcraft, satanism, etc... Most of it was shock rock and completely entertainment, but there were some serious things going on as well... That is why Stryper, Rez and other bands pioneered a wonderful new movement called Christian Rock to sway people back to the truth, and give the new generation of music listeners hope of salvation, as opposed to being drowned with silly occultic things...

None the less, I have always believed that we were all Johnny Come Lately's to this rock scene... But, music is just a tool like any other tool, and just because others used it as a vehicle to preach their worldy beliefs, didn't mean that we as Christians couldn't use it either...

Think about preaching... This wasn't an art form simply used by ministers, it was long used for political swaying of the masses, also in sales techniques, and many other forms of being heard... But again, God isn't held in a box and can do whatever He pleases using this art form to reach the masses as well...

Now, a big part of the music that bands produce is in fact packaging... Artwork... Symbolism... It has always been with ALL art forms... It is just that! ART!

I remember working at Guitar Center when "D" was way out of the loop by then and POD was now making a HUGE mark on music... Traa used to come to our store to buy some of his gear as to there were 2 Guitar Center's in the San Diego area where I lived at the time... He would drop off posters and such, and we would promote the band seeing that they were a San Diego based band...

I remember looking at the imagery used on their artwork... There was definite uses of voodoo, Santeria, witchcraft and Rasta type imaging along with an obvious caribean catholic symbolism use as well... I thought it odd that a Christian band would have these things, but supported them in their quest none the less...

Deliverance used as their logo the Papal Cross... Again, we weren't catholic, but I really liked that cross, and I could care less what pope endorsed it as the true cross symbol to use or whatever... I just liked it...

Symbols are just that... Symbols... They are not the TRUEST representitive of a belief... They are always associated with certain beliefs, but it doesn't mean that in the world and realm of angels and demons and the supernatural they are viewed as such...

We tend to get so caught up with the use of symbols... But, the bottom line is that, in the end what is the HEART of the individual using this symbol and what is their intention... Because that is what is seen in the UN-seen world... Not a cross or a star, or a salute, or a triune symbol, etc...

In studying the Torah (old testament) for the past 10 years, we really have no idea what most of it means as Christians... Most of IT is symbolism, esoteric teaching and analogy... That's all... It was designed this way for a reason! Most of it not to be taken literal, but to be read between the lines... There is indeed a LOT of history and study that goes into this... And, the most important part of it all is knowing Hebrew... Because there is WAY too much lost in the translation...

I don't think that POD are occultist's or rastafarian's as this guy on that website likes to proclaim... They are just taking liberties with their art... Nothing more...

Do you honestly think that the blessing of the Yellow and Black Attack and those very powerful lyrics that SCREAM praises to Jesus and dare to lead people to the Lord would've been less effective should there have been a Pentagram or Upside Down Cross on the artwork somewhere??? Some would argue YES! I would argue NO! Because the message and the intention of the HEART is what matters... And it was blessed by God having given glory to His Son, Jesus...

Think of Jonah as he preached to Ninevah after being in the belly of the big fish... He had to have looked like Death Warmed Over... The stomach acids turned his skin pale white, and more than likely left him naked... Did he first seek to have his skin pigment return and clothe himself before preaching to the masses as commanded by God? NO! He went as he was...

Image, symbols, appearance... All of this is beyond secondary... Where is the heart??? What is the intention??? If you spend all your time getting hung up on all of these things that truly don't obtain, you can miss out on some wonderful things and blessings in your life...

Think about the inverted cross... Believed to be the mark of satanism... It was in fact the symbol most used about Peter, the Apostle who didn't view himself worthy to hang in the same manner as his Lord, so instead opted to be crucified upside down... When I see an upside down cross, that is what comes to mind... Not some silly satanists and his pathetic attempts to defy our Lord by imagery or symbols...

Perception...

Just my 2 cents...

JB-

I just wanted to add to something to what I posted earlier. When a christian bands uses symbols for their clothing, stage set-up, Cd covers, advertising, flyers, etc - there are certain liberties. A band must be careful as to what symbols they use, whether it glorifies Christ, and whether it causes a weaker brother/sister or nonchristian to stumble ie bad example/testimony. We as christins have to realize the eyes of the world are watching us. We have to not worry so much what folks like AV1611 Geff Godwin - they view isnt worth anything regarding music. Its those music fans who are babes in christ - the new converts and the unsaved - these are ones we should be concerned about because they may go to a concert or potentially buy a Saint., Rob Rock, Stryper or Deviverance CD. Once they buy that Cd or go to a convert, they ar elooking for a good time and are looking for truth - the love of Jesus.

I would like to add that personally, I feel uncomfortable when a christian band uses skulls on their art work. I know the new Saint Cd has it on their new Cd Hell Blade but I won't write it off as Satanic or make a quick judgement. I am curious as to what the meaning of it is. I am hoping if someone could tell me.

Just my take on things.

jpb nails it.

Some people are too hung up on which culture used a certain symbol first. If this triangle thing can be used as a reference to the trinity then who cares if pagans or whatever celtic groups had used it prior. God can use anything he chooses.

Ahh yes, Jimmy Brown, always a breath of fresh air. Why can't people see what Jimmy says is the truth? I don't know, maybe because they can't step out of their legalistic religious mindset?

Yeah, thanks Jimmy.
You nailed it mate...

I agree, I think the same, symbols are just symbols, I dont believe they hold any power.

BAH!

Quote:

If you spend all your time getting hung up on all of these things that truly don't obtain, you can miss out on some wonderful things and blessings in your life...

...oh, don't be too harsh on 'em there...if there was nothing to complain about, they'd have no purpose in life

_________________

and to think they used to say only the beat was satanic....

this was a big debate in what 2003? people need to grow up and stop taking in what others say to good or bad. all christian rock and metal bands have caught flack over artwork, cover songs or the beat seems POD got it worst of all since they blew up. they can't even backmask "God is love" into their song without making peope mad.

This is the goofiest thread I have read in a long time. The link shows a Celtic High Cross as Pagan Jewelry. Oh really, Christianity never came to Ireland! Interesting.