I just read this entire thread.



Good thread.....some good posts.....interesting.



for Steve. (That's more use than boring you all with my various thoughts on this matter)

I have much to say about this, but I'm rather tired. Suffice it to say that I'm concerned about Steve.

So, I just want to be clear....if trying before buying is an evil practive, than i suppose with that "logic", having a friend come over and playing the cd for me, start to finish, is a damning sin. Where does it end?

Illeagal downloads are wrong for any reason, your motive does not make them legal. He has samples on the page where you can "try before you buy." I understand Steve is hurt and upset, but his analogy to sexual sin is absurd and he may be close to becoming bitter. Comparing lp sales to Scrolls is also absurd, that was a great lp and came out at a time when that genre was really happening. I have no doubt that Steve didn't have a problem w/folks sampling Scrolls, he knew he had a great product and once people heard it they would want it, not so w/TEADM.

Just for the record.....i've never downloaded songs off of a torrent site...i wouldn't even know how to. I only buy physical cds......I just don't get Steve's complete twisting of scripture.

BAH!
...okay, I'm back from a blissful internet-free holiday weekend at a family reunion mega-cookout (beef up the collective wazoos, there, yuuuuuuuuuummmmm), and thought I'd post this before the inevitable locking up and filing away in the catacombs:

...I've prayed and thought about it, and have decided to keep the Mortification in the playlist. I'm praying for Steve, as I have through the years, and I realize that just a monthly newsletter doesn't even scratch the mental surface of what's going on in his life. He's a godly man, and still struggles, like I do, to try and do the right thing. I of all people know how testing periods suck rancid tacos. I can only begin to fathom what kind of strain his family might be going through. Had I followed through with just a knee-jerk reaction, I would have been hard pressed to justify leaving Vengeance Rising in with the mix...

...I still don't agree with his reasoning, but in the end we should no be decending upon Steve with our swords, and instead lift him up on our shoulders...

Points:


1. From ^^^^ above ^^^^:

Quote:

...I've prayed and thought about it, and have decided to keep the Mortification in the playlist. I'm praying for Steve, as I have through the years, and I realize that just a monthly newsletter doesn't even scratch the mental surface of what's going on in his life. He's a godly man, and still struggles, like I do, to try and do the right thing. I of all people know how testing periods suck rancid tacos. I can only begin to fathom what kind of strain his family might be going through. Had I followed through with just a knee-jerk reaction, I would have been hard pressed to justify leaving Vengeance Rising in with the mix... ...I still don't agree with his reasoning, but in the end we should no be decending upon Steve with our swords, and instead lift him up on our shoulders...

Good post. IMO of course.



2. We, none of us, just don't know where Steve is now, and has been at, mentally and in his heart. To say he has had, faced, and lived through challenges.......would be an understatement. And basically......he still faces some of those challenges each and every day.....still, and probably for the rest of his life.



4. for Steve. That's still the best darn thing I can do for him.

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

I really like the NEW MORT & TOTALLY get the comparison! That is not to say that illegal downloading is the same as fornication, but I do get the "Try before you buy" point on the subject, which I think is what he meant.

I completely understand what was TRYING to get at....but feel he's totally off base in his comparison. When Mortification is meant to be my help mate and life partner....when the band and I are to become one flesh, I'll agree with his assessment of the impropriety......

That made me laugh. I'm still betting Steve pulls through this and i'm praying for him.

Well, I'll continue to support the man. I've been a fan 17-18 years now. That won't change, and I'm always grateful for Jesus Metal. His lyrics helped put the Bible in my head as much as numerous readings could.

Ministry is one thing, sometimes theres money, sometimes not, but It seems that for his own health, maybe Mortification should take a backseat, If I was in that position, I'd say time to get a job, or forget the band. there are other ways to minister. but to threaten to sue people..even maybe other believers is Wrong...I wont support a ministry with that kind of attitude.
I admit, I own several Mort CD's but, have downloaded them for my mp.3 player, because I didnt want to take the time to encode/rip my own, Im sure other people have done that before. whats the harm in that?, honestly... I say break up the band, and pay bills, get rid of the pride.

Steve's a walking testimony...he doesnt need mort to minister....

Hmmmm, seems Steve is not the only one suggesting that illegal downloading is killing smaller bands and labels. This email was sent out to all the bands on Bombworks and Retroactive this past weekend. Does this not sound similar to what Steve Rowe said?

Quote:

Hi Guys, Here is some info on stopping rampant illegal download sites. As a label this illegal downloading has literally cost us thousands of sales. Seventh Angel has sold poorly for us - a big name release! Yet, one of 20 free downloads sites has a counter that said the album had been downloaded 7500 times. As a label, we need your help in clamping down on these sites. It is extremely important for us to hammer down on illegal downloads early in the life of a release when the demand is highest. Bombworks and Retroactive cannot do this alone - we need your help and help from your fans to assist in policing this. Most file hosting companys "only" require the following information from you, emailed to their abuse department. ex. Rapidshare abuse@rapidshare.com We are the copyright owners of this recording ARTIST: SEVENTH ANGEL ALBUM: THE DUST OF YEARS LABEL: BOMBWORKS/RETROACTIVE RECORDS linked from several illegal MP3 sharing sites. We kindly ask you to remove the files from your server. Thank you. LOCATION OF FILE: FILENAME: Some require you mention where it was linked from: LINKED FROM: NAME: COMPANY; ADDRESS: PHONE: Thanks for anything you can do to help...... Matt

So Seventh Angels is selling poorly, yet the album has been downloaded
illegally 7,500 times. Hmmmm...perhaps Steve Rowe isn't so off base as
some proposed?

_________________

I don't think he was off base at all, I just didn't care for the sexual sin analogy. Also comparing the sales of TEADM to that of Scrollls.

I agree about the sexual sin analogy. That was going way into left field. However, the overall point he was trying to make is valid and similar to what Matt is saying here.

How sad that a band like Seventh Angel wouldn't even be able to sell through their first 1,000 CDs pressed, yet there are 7,500 digital downloads on one illegal site alone.

Honestly, I've spoken to Matt about this recently. If this isn't curbed quickly, it will force labels like Retroactive and Bombworks to either shut down, or at least scale back releases quite a bit.

I agree, there has to be a way to stop this!

Perhaps it was because both were released on "digi-packs?"

Don't get me wrong, I HATE illegal downloading. The thing is, to say that since 7500 people illegally downloaded the Seventh Angel album, that it equates to 7500 lost cd sales....well, that just doesn't add up. Just because 7500 people downloaded it, doesn't mean that 7500 would have actually bought it. The only reason people downloaded it, is because it's free. If that option wasn't there in the first place, you may have had an extra few hundred sales. Most people are just downloading it to try it out. I'm sure that a lot of people are doing it in the way that you and I would go to a used cd store and listen to a used cd to see if it's to our liking. That doesn't make it right, but to say that everyone who downloads an album is taking a sale away from the artist is a bit off.

No, I totally agree that most people who are dowloading stuff and KEEPING it are teens with limited budgets who really don't care about the logistics of things. I really do feel though, that a lot of these artists that are coming back and releasing new albums just have to realize that their time has come and gone, and that a lot of people don't really care that "Seventh Angel", or all of these other "classic" christian metal bands have released a new album. Too much has changed in the music industry for these bands to really survive. Never mind the fact that the fanbase for these bands wasn't very big in the first place, even back in the day.....i'd be surprised to see even a band like Stryper sell a ton of copies of their newest. Yeah, we're all fans here of certain classic christian bands, but there's really only a handful of us.