I have a friend who has a problem with the homosexual dilemma. She acknowledges that there is scripture against homosexuality, but doesn't understand WHY it's wrong.

There is the typical Catholic argument that sex is for procreation. So in Catholism, all fooling around pretty much stops there. But in Protestantism, what about straight infertile couples who have sex, or old couples who get married. What about the issue of birth control willingly used by married couples?

So other than "God said so" what makes it wrong. Any ideas?

First of all, the Catholic position is not about procreation only, it also about the bond of love between a man and his wife. No such bond is possible between those of the same sex. Like any other sexual sin, homosexuality adulterates the gift of sex.

For a Christian, there need be no other justification, but even as a non-Christian, stepping outside of the Biblical limitations for sex has consequences, and any non-Christian will be happy to acknowledge this if the question is phrased properly.

If the Biblical standard for sex, one man and one woman for life, were to be applied strictly, all STDs would be wiped out in one generation. There is no arguing this, it's a fact.

So if you think that AIDS, gonorrhea, herpes, HPV, chylamidia, syphilis, cervical cancer and crabs sound like a good idea to you, go for it, but don't think that you are somehow immune to the consequences of your actions.

If you engage in any sort of extra marital relations, sooner or later you will contract one or more of these diseases. And one in four people have them. Do the math.

Bottom line is, God gave us these rules to follow, not because He is trying to deprive us of a good time, but because he loves us and does not want to see us suffer. Some will listen and avoid these diseases, some will not and will suffer. Just don't blame God if you do. He warned you.

Because Who-whos go with Hah-hahs.
Not Hah-hahs with Hah-hahs or Who-whos with Who-whos.

homosexuality is unnatural and it is unhealthy. there is heaps of evidence relating homosexuality to disease. God designed us physically in a certain way and when we go against that design, we are disrespecting God, and hurting ourselves.

And because we are to be an example of Christ and His Church and that is best represented by a man and a woman in a committed loving relationship.

While this is kinda off-topic it's also somewhat realted. Some of you may have seen this (I didn't write it):

I was holding a notice from my 13-year-old son's school announcing a
meeting to preview the new course in sexuality. Parents could examine
the curriculum and take part in an actual lesson presented exactly as it
would be given to the students.


When I arrived at the school, I was surprised to discover only about a
dozen parents there. As we waited for the presentation, I thumbed
through page after page of instructions in the prevention of pregnancy
or disease I found abstinence mentioned only in passing.


When the teacher arrived with the school nurse, she asked if there were
any questions. I asked why abstinence did not play a noticeable part in
the material.


What happened next was shocking. There was a great deal of laughter, and
someone suggested that if I thought abstinence had any merit, I should
go back to burying my head in the sand.


The teacher and the nurse said nothing as I drowned in a sea of
embarrassment. My mind had gone blank, and I could think of nothing to say.


The teacher explained to me that the job of the school was to teach
"facts," and the home was responsible for moral training.


I sat in silence for the next 20 minutes as the course was explained.
The other parents seemed to give their unqualified support to the materials.


"Donuts, at the back," announced the teacher during the break. "I'd like
you to put on the name tags we have prepared--they're right by the
donuts -- and mingle with the other parents."


Everyone moved to the back of the room. As I watched them affixing their
name tags and shaking hands, I sat deep in thought.


I was ashamed that I had not been able to convince them to include a
serious discussion of abstinence in the materials. I uttered a silent
prayer for guidance.


My thoughts were interrupted by the teacher's hand on my shoulder.
"Won't you join the others, Mr. Layton?"


The nurse smiled sweetly at me. "The donuts are good."


"Thank you, no," I replied.


"Well, then, how about a name tag? I'm sure the others would like to
meet you."


"Somehow I doubt that," I replied.


"Won't you please join them?" she coaxed.


Then I heard a still, small voice whisper, "Don't go." The instruction
was unmistakable. "Don't go!" "I'll just wait here," I said.


When the class was called back to order, the teacher looked around the
long table and thanked everyone for putting on name tags. She ignored me.


Then she said, "Now we're going to give you the same lesson we'll be
giving your children. Everyone please peel off your name tags."


I watched in silence as the tags came off.


"Now, then, on the back of one of the tags, I drew a tiny flower. Who
has it, please?"


The gentleman across from me held it up. "Here it is!"


"All right," she said. "The flower represents disease. Do you recall
with whom you shook hands?"


He pointed to a couple of people.


"Very good," she replied. "The handshake in this case represents
intimacy. So the two people you had contact with now have the disease."


There was laughter and joking among the parents. The teacher
continued,"And with whom did the two of you shake hands?"


The point was well taken, and she explained how this lesson would show
students how quickly disease is spread. "Since we all shook hands, we
all have the disease."


It was then that I heard the still, small voice again. "Speak now", it
said, "but be humble." I noted wryly the latter admonition, then rose
from my chair.


I apologized for any upset I might have caused earlier, congratulated
the teacher on an excellent lesson that would impress the youth, and
concluded by saying I had only one small point I wished to make. "Not
all of us were infected,"


I said. "One of us... abstained."

Good Post

OK What reason would you give a gay person who has not been saved.......Because God said so doesnt work. The whole disease thing doesnt even work on straight people......What about gay people who use a condem.........What about someone who is saved who still sins in this manner? Are they going to Hell?

I think Candy is right on but I guess that puts people who are living with there signifigant others in a in the same boat as gay people........Are they going to Hell?

I was taught sin is sin.........And sin can not come before God that is why Christ Died for us, to cover our sins, to pay our debt, so we can go to our Father in Heaven. If God hates all sin, he hates lies and stealing and PRIDE as much as Homosexuality so I guess if you lie or steal or are prideful/hateful of others your going to hell too if you believe all gay people go to hell.

Christians need to spend more time helping non Christians meet Jesus and less time condeming sinners.

How about this, If gay people dont choose to have feeling towards those of the same sex, why do they? Could it be manipulation of the enemy? And if so how is this different from a Hypocritical ultra "Religious" person Judging others.......I think the Devil plays a part in all of our sin.

The point is not to convince them that they are wrong. The idea is to continue to show them God's absolute love for them NO MATTER WHAT. Only they can change. Even if they accept Jesus it may be years (or maybe never) that they change that part of their life. While living with a same-sex partner is a fairly obvious sin, we all have things that we will likely never get over in our lifetimes either.

I once heard a pastor put it this way: "Homosexuals are just like me, they want to have sex with someone they shouldn't".

There is a move toward seeing acceptance of Jesus not as an on/off either you are or you're not, but as a trend on a line. The issue is not so much where you are on the line but in which direction you are headed. That allows me to understand that a homosexual drug addict who comes from a broken home(s) and was molested as a child may never get as far along that line (at least the way I would interpret the line) as those of us who grew up in stable Christian homes and never had issues with drugs, alcohol etc.

God loves them (as much as my self-righteousness would wish it otherwise) as much as He loves me, and if the parable of the lost sheep is any indication, will put much more effort into getting them back then on maintaining me. And if we pay attention to the Gospels, He would rather spend time with them than with the monogamous heterosexual church leader who does everything out of duty, pride, self-gratification, financial benefit etc. but not love.

Right on Dropout.....Only the Holy Spirit can show them that is wrong.

Showing God's love is apart of the equation but you must give them the law, the 10 Commandments. Walking them through just 3-4 of the commandments and perhaps avoiding the sin of homosexuality would probably be the best route to take. For instance everyone has lusted, stolen, lied, and taken God's name in vain. The law is there to show us our guilt. So in short we stand before God as lying, theiving, lusting, and blasfemous adulterers. We all have fallen short of the glory of God, no matter what sin, so we stand before him as guilty. One must see how they are in Gods eyes before they can even submit. Then you tell them about what God has done. He loved us so much he sent his only Son to take our place and that if we repent from our sins, follow, and put our trust in Jesus we will be seen by God as Justified. Not by our actions but by Jesus' actions.

If the individual brings up homosexuality, then talk about it. Don't be afraid. You are sharing the truth and wether the person accepts this as truth or not is between them and God. Remeber you can't change him or her, that is the job of the Holy Spirit. You must deliver the truth though, and in loving and kind way. It is a very difficult pill to swallow when you find out your wrong; your lifestyle, the people you hang out with, the places you frenquent. I think most of us can attest to the feeling of hopelessness that eventually brought about remorse, repentance, then faith in Jesus Christ.

Homosexuality is sure a popular topic around here.

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Awesome posts Dropout I do have one question, in your story what happened next? did the teacher feel stupid?

Alot of good posts on the topic but im with FOJ, God saying so is enough for me