Epic of Gilgamesh

bgast1 · Number of posts: 458 Age: 58 Registration date: 2007-04-07

I tried to search for this information but really couldn't come up with a solid answer. Does anyone know if the epic of Gilgamesh talks about a global or a localized flood? I know that there are significant differences between the Epic of Gilgamesh and the Genesis flood, ie the amount of days of rain. Noah -- 40 days & Nights. Gilgamesh-- 6 days & nights. Either flood was intended to destroy all mankind except for the flood hero Genesis = Noah, Gilgamesh = Utnapishtim.

GODSWIZARD · Subject: Re: Epic of Gilgamesh Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:43 pm

The Great Flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh is global.

KISS

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Fundy · Number of posts: 384 Registration date: 2007-04-11

I've got that book.............

but it's in a box........

somewhere.........

in the garage..........

probably at the bottom..........

of many many other boxes..........

But I have got that book!

Shocked

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The Shekman · Number of posts: 317 Age: 41 Registration date: 2008-07-05

bgast1 wrote:

Gilgamesh = Utnapishtim.

How'd they come up with a name like that? Throw darts at an alphabet board?

GODSWIZARD · Subject: Re: Epic of Gilgamesh Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Quote:

bgast1 wrote:

Gilgamesh = Utnapishtim.

How'd they come up with a name like that? Throw darts at an alphabet board?

Giving a totally serious answer to your question......regardless of how you meant it (seriously or not).

Points:

1. Utnapishtim is the anglicization of a Sumerian name. In the course of anglicization of that Sumerian name it is allowed to come out rather......strange to our eyes. Razz

2. This Sumerian name dates from about 2,500 B.C. or so. We can quibble, and go back and forth, about dates and dating of this name and its inclusion in the Gilgamesh text, but 2,500 B.C. is a good and somewhat accurate dating of the name and the Gilgamesh text it is in. Given the fact it is about 4,500+ years old it is allowed to come out rather......strange to our eyes. Razz

3. The name Utnapishtim comes from, originally, tablets of hardened clay with Sumerian cuneiform inscriptions on them. Given the fact those Sumerian cuneiform inscribed tablets are about 4,500+ years old it is allowed to come out rather......strange to our eyes. Razz

Sumerian cuneiform from 2,500 B.C. to modern English?? Question

Go for it.

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

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Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

GODSWIZARD wrote:

The Great Flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh is global.

KISS

Actually, this is wrong.

The Flood described in the Epic of Gilgamesh is not global, although it is massive and does wipe out civilizations. Utnapishtim is described as riding upon the floodwaters... to the West. Utnaphistim is one of the characters Gilgamesh runs into in his adventures, who recants of him the tale of the Flood.

Also, Utnaphishtim and Gilgamesh are too different people, in this tome.

On a side note, I think the fact that the Epic describes many of the Sumerian gods as dwelling in hell.. is a very interesting highlight-

"The house where the dead dwell in total darkness,
Where they drink dirt and eat stone,
Where they wear feathers like birds,
Where no light ever invades their everlasting darkness,
Where the door and the lock of Hell is coated with thick dust.
When I entered the House of Dust,
On every side the crowns of kings were heaped,
On every side the voices of the kings who wore those crowns,
Who now only served food to the gods Anu and Enlil,
Candy, meat, and water poured from skins.
I saw sitting in this House of Dust a priest and a servant,
I also saw a priest of purification and a priest of ecstasy,
I saw all the priests of the great gods.
There sat Etana and Sumukan,
There sat Ereshkigal, the queen of Hell,
Beletseri, the scribe of Hell, sitting before her.
Beletseri held a tablet and read it to Ereshkigal.
She slowly raised her head when she noticed me
She pointed at me:
"Who has sent this man?""

GODSWIZARD · Subject: Re: Epic of Gilgamesh Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:12 pm

Quote:

GODSWIZARD wrote:

The Great Flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh is global.

KISS

Actually, this is wrong.

The Flood described in the Epic of Gilgamesh is not global, although it is massive and does wipe out civilizations.

Meh.....interpretation of the text. scratch

I see it as what amounts to global. scratch

Others see it differently. scratch

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

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Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

According to Utnapishti, the Flood waters did not reach the far West (where he ended up), nor wipe out the civilizations there.

In fact, it was because of his riding on the Flood waters that Utnaphists was able to reach the "West'.. the other side of the world.

Of course, in ancient times... such a distant civilization was often described as "another world".

bgast1 · Number of posts: 458 Age: 58 Registration date: 2007-04-07

Gone wrote:

According to Utnapishti, the Flood waters did not reach the far West (where he ended up), nor wipe out the civilizations there.

In fact, it was because of his riding on the Flood waters that Utnaphists was able to reach the "West'.. the other side of the world.

Of course, in ancient times... such a distant civilization was often described as "another world".

I thought he also ended up near Mt. Ararat. Isn't Mt. Nisir close by?

Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

bgast1 wrote:

Gone wrote:

According to Utnapishti, the Flood waters did not reach the far West (where he ended up), nor wipe out the civilizations there.

In fact, it was because of his riding on the Flood waters that Utnaphists was able to reach the "West'.. the other side of the world.

Of course, in ancient times... such a distant civilization was often described as "another world".

I thought he also ended up near Mt. Ararat. Isn't Mt. Nisir close by?

I don't know.. But interestingly, since you brought up mountains... mountains were considered by the Ancient Sumerians as the homes of the gods. And as such, were also considered the source of all magick.. and they were big on magick.

And Gilgamesh was considered part god, also, since he was the son of a king. You can see his superhuman feats throughout the story.

I find this interesting too compare to the Mighty Men of Renown found in the Old Testament account.

Also, if you like Ancient stories of a Huge Flood, you might look into Popol Vuh by Plato. It is not as ancient as The Epic of Gilgamesh, but it is a seperate account the Judeo-Christian one and is also ancient, as well.

_________________

bgast1 · Number of posts: 458 Age: 58 Registration date: 2007-04-07

Gone wrote:

I don't know.. But interestingly, since you brought up mountains... mountains were considered by the Ancient Sumerians as the homes of the gods. And as such, were also considered the source of all magick.. and they were big on magick.

The Babylonians expounded big time on that. Huge technological empire for that time, unbelievable what they accomplished, but also unbelievably superstitious.

GODSWIZARD · Subject: Re: Epic of Gilgamesh Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Quote:

I find this interesting too compare to the Mighty Men of Renown found in the Old Testament account.

Spot on.

Yeah.......... scratch

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

All the Mesopotamian ancients used "mountains" in their magick.

The most well known example would be the Great pyramids of egypt... there is a reason they are so huge and reach so high.. that is how one makes a temple for the gods and a magickal "mountain" of power with which to both commune with the gods and to also gain knowledge, wisdom and magickal power// something we know the anceint egyptians possssed some of, indeed. Remember the biblical account of the ehyptian sorceror's who were able to turn their staffs into snakes when Moses did. And remember how pharoah was seemingly unimpressed with so mnay of the great plagues.. because he had already seen many marvels from his own wise men and magicians.

Also, if we look at Ancient Judaism.. we also see them using Mountains.. not as magickal places.. but as places were prophets would go to meet with God. ( For example, where the ten commandments were received ).

It's definitely all connected.. to some degree.

bgast1 · Number of posts: 458 Age: 58 Registration date: 2007-04-07

Are there any people performing the type of Magick that you refer to today? I'm wondering if the Magick that was performed back in those days were nothing more than an illusion, just like you see when you go to a magic show today.

I'm old enough to have read Carlos Castenada and I remember having a lot of questions about some of that stuff. Especially shape shifting.

Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

bgast1 wrote:

Are there any people performing the type of Magick that you refer to today? I'm wondering if the Magick that was performed back in those days were nothing more than an illusion, just like you see when you go to a magic show today.

I'm old enough to have read Carlos Castenada and I remember having a lot of questions about some of that stuff. Especially shape shifting.

Well, I woudl say.. no, in that back then Magicians were used by Kings and were nationally funded..and there magick was publicly celebrated and feared.

Not so today, and rightfully so, since we as Christians should know where that power comes from.

But I think that Ancient magick is going to soon come upon the scene again.. as Revelation describes.. the Signs and Wonders that will be used in the site of the public, in part, to deceive the world. While alot of it will probably be scientific.. "Signs and Wonders" usually implies the unexplainable.. and so I think we're looking at something non-science related.. like the supernatural magick, connected with the same ancient gods, whom the old testament refers to as the Nafar.. "the fallen ones".

GODSWIZARD · Subject: Re: Epic of Gilgamesh Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:13 pm

Points:

1. Bgast said:

Quote:

I'm old enough to have read Carlos Castenada....

I read him too....in my teens. study

2. Ash said:

Quote:

Not so today, and rightfully so, since we as Christians should know where that power comes from.

Well said.

3. Ash also said:

Quote:

But I think that Ancient magick is going to soon come upon the scene again.. as Revelation describes.. the Signs and Wonders that will be used in the site of the public, in part, to deceive the world. While alot of it will probably be scientific.. "Signs and Wonders" usually implies the unexplainable.. and so I think we're looking at something non-science related.. like the supernatural magick, connected with the same ancient gods, whom the old testament refers to as the Nafar.. "the fallen ones".

Well said.

Interesting.

In fact.....I agree with pretty much all of it.

KISS

_________________
"The 'farce' is strong with Sith Lord Obama-Wan." words of Scourge.

"Uh....You can believe me....Uh....because I never lie, and....Uh....Uh....I am always right." words of Sith Lord Obama-Wan.

Daddy likes it all, the DraíodóirDé likes it all

bgast1 · Number of posts: 458 Age: 58 Registration date: 2007-04-07

True we know where that power comes from. There must be something to some of it I suppose. A lot of people report some pretty miraculous healing and things from Witch Doctors. Some of that stuff must have continued to be passed on.

I'm not sure all psychics are frauds. But if that is the case how do you account for the solving of some crime cases where law enforcement has enlisted the use of a psychic.

Unless this stuff comes from demonic activity, then I suppose a lot of the tools that people use are just the function on nature laws. How about that stick that people used to find water. Some folks swear by it.

Gone · Number of posts: 969 Registration date: 2008-12-03

bgast1 wrote:

True we know where that power comes from. There must be something to some of it I suppose. A lot of people report some pretty miraculous healing and things from Witch Doctors. Some of that stuff must have continued to be passed on.

I'm not sure all psychics are frauds. But if that is the case how do you account for the solving of some crime cases where law enforcement has enlisted the use of a psychic.

Unless this stuff comes from demonic activity, then I suppose a lot of the tools that people use are just the function on nature laws. How about that stick that people used to find water. Some folks swear by it.

I woudl disagree that it all comes from demonic power.. in regards to certain people who have certain mental and spiritual gifts. But, when it comes to magick and sorcery.. I think we could agree most of it, if not all, has a demonic origin.

Of course, the word Demon is too me.. sometimes not very useful in this matter.. these Demons are indeed gods (small g).. in that they have ruled and seek to rule the world, and to be praised. And they did and do perform miraculous deeds to glorify themselves and grant power to those who do their bidding and serve their purposes.

There is a reason Christ told us when he walked upon it that he is not of this world.

Also, when considered miraculous deeds, one must consider the source. Remember in the New Testament some of the Apostles were considered by some too by magicians.. because God was working through them and many people , of course, cannot see when God is working through someone.