Ephesians and Predestination

texanvfg · Number of posts: 302 Age: 40 Registration date: 2009-07-04

Fortifiv3 wrote:

It seems pretty hard to swallow sometimes, but there are people on this earth who God does not want as his chosen people or "children".

Way way wrong line of thinking there - 1 Timothy 2 3&4 states ³This is good, and pleases God our Savior, ⁴who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

God wants ALL MEN to be saved! Yes, He knows who will reject His call, but He still wants all men to be saved.

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candlemass · Subject: Re: Ephesians and Predestination Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:46 pm

Fortifiv3 wrote:

In the book of John Jesus says the following "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name."

So he is telling us that we did not choose Him (Jesus) but he chose us beforehand. Way before we were ever even a fetus! Before we were even thought about. A lot of people think the opposite, which is wrong.

He was talking to the apostles, no apostle was self ordained.

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shadow_zone · Number of posts: 502 Age: 23 Registration date: 2008-12-03

Fortifiv3 wrote:

Taken from the book of John :

¹⁰If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. ¹¹I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. ¹²My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. ¹³Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. ¹⁴You are my friends if you do what I command. ¹⁵I
no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his
master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything
that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. ¹⁶You
did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear
fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you
ask in my name.

I know that God chose me to serve him beforehand. I do believe he knows who will be saved and who won't, after all, he is God. It seems pretty hard to swallow sometimes, but there are people on this earth who God does not want as his chosen people or "children".

He's talking to the twelve. I agree that He knows who will be saved and who wont, but I disagree that He created some people for the sole purpose of hell. That to me is not love.

Gods foreknowledge of whose going where is a result of Him knowing what path each person will choose, not aa result of Him handpicking some for heaven and some for hell.

Jiu Jitsu Jon · Number of posts: 14 Registration date: 2009-10-02

shadow_zone wrote:

Fortifiv3 wrote:

Taken from the book of John :

¹⁰If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. ¹¹I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. ¹²My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. ¹³Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. ¹⁴You are my friends if you do what I command. ¹⁵I
no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his
master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything
that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. ¹⁶You
did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear
fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you
ask in my name.

I know that God chose me to serve him beforehand. I do believe he knows who will be saved and who won't, after all, he is God. It seems pretty hard to swallow sometimes, but there are people on this earth who God does not want as his chosen people or "children".

He's talking to the twelve. I agree that He knows who will be saved and who wont, but I disagree that He created some people for the sole purpose of hell. That to me is not love.

Gods foreknowledge of whose going where is a result of Him knowing what path each person will choose, not aa result of Him handpicking some for heaven and some for hell.

So Jesus "loves" the people in hell? After all Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If so, that's a terrible excuse for love.

shadow_zone · Number of posts: 502 Age: 23 Registration date: 2008-12-03

Ummm, your missing the WHOLE point of Jesus coming to earth there. Remember the famous John 3:16?

¹⁶"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,^[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God has already provided a way for sinners like me to have eternal life. Why did He do that? Because He loves me.
People who disregard this do so at there own peril. The fact that many people will/have not turned to God does NOT diminish His love for them. He gave them a way and they rejected it. It is them who are lacking in love, not Jesus Christ

texanvfg · Number of posts: 302 Age: 40 Registration date: 2009-07-04

Question: Why would a God of love send anyone to hell?

Answer: God does NOT send anyone to hell - people choose to go there of their own free will by refusing to accept God's gift of eternal life!

John 3:16 as shadow pointed out.......

_________________
Forever stronger than all....through Him!

"Lousy karmic retribution!" H.J. Simpson

"PELVIC THRUSTS OF DESTRUCTION rocks!" GODSWIZARD

Gun powder and duct tape - that don't sound like science - that sounds like a family reunion!

*This Space for Rent!*

When in doubt....C4!

candlemass · Subject: Re: Ephesians and Predestination Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:44 am

"To the unmerciful I will appear as unmerciful." The one who hid his talent thought the master was harsh and cruel, so to him the master appeared harsh and cruel. God is love, God is not wrath, but to those who reject Him, His love will appear to them as wrath. "You thought I was just like you!"

_________________
"I'm wrong about fifty percent of the time, I'm just not sure wich fifty percent!"