Do you realize that the Gospels came into existance because of the Easter story? Many of the oral stories that were passed around dealt with the first Christmas and the passion week. Have you not read the Gospels? How much of the Gospels deal with Christmas and Easter? John begins the passion week at the end of chapter 11. The whole book is only 21 chapters,over half of that Gospel deals with it. It does not matter the date but the story, Christmas and Easter are the whole of Christianity.

It is Jesus, not the Old Testament Law, that saves us. I am not a Jew. I believe in the Old Testament, I believe it is the inspired Word of God. I also believe in the New Testament, that it is the inspired Word of God. Have you read Galations? Read chapter 2 especially. Paul is confronting Peter for forcing Gentiles to follow Jewish customs.
^"14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? ¹⁵"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' ¹⁶know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."


If you want to celebrate Jewish festivals, more power to you. But to suggest that it is sinful to celebrate the Coming of Christ and the Resurrection of Christ is way off base.

What? How is this legalism? This is just a matter of celebrating a holiday that is biblical, instead of extrabiblical or man's tradition. This has nothing to do with being saved or not. If something is biblical, just because we have freedom in Christ doesn't mean we get to make things up as we go along, and celebreate holidays that don't have any prophetic meaning? Yes, their is a gospel message in what the churches preach for Easter and Christmas, but why celebrate a substitute? The holidays God already gave us do that already. Jesus fulfilled Sukkot and Passover. Why water it down? We are supposed to be holy (e.g. set apart) right? Not syncretizing (sp?) with the world's pagan festivals. It's about being an effective witness and being blessed by finally "getting it" (what God is actually doing/meaning by these holidays).

Black Rider wrote:

Quote: If any church preaches "Christmas" and "Easter", they aren't giving the masses the full truth. More like a watered down version. And what message are they missing? It gives you Christ coming to earth and his death and resurrection. The OT holidays are like history lessons and can be informative but I don't see them as mandatory. Man, this borders on some strict legalism.

The gospel did not come in to extistence because of Easter and Christmas. I REPEAT, they did NOT come in to existence because of Easter and Christmas. I implore anyone to prove me wrong.

What you SHOULD be saying is...Christianity was spread due to the gentiles (even with all their pagan sycretization and other non-biblical traditions). Which is awesome, don't get me wrong. The gospel came from the JEWS. Specifically, the Jewish savior Yeshua (Jesus). Now, we (the gentiles) are bringing the Jew to jealousy because we know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and his Messiah, and they don't. But it's been so twisted by the gentile churches so much at times, that we make them shake their head and they don't get us. It should not be 2 separate religions. Christianity is supposed to be "Judaism...with Messiah fulfilled". We worship the same God. Why not worship the way they worshiped? The 1st century believers worshiped the Jewish holidays. Why are we somehow different and consider these holidays obsolete when God never said so?

intrigued1 wrote:

Do you realize that the Gospels came into existance because of the Easter story? Many of the oral stories that were passed around dealt with the first Christmas and the passion week. Have you not read the Gospels? How much of the Gospels deal with Christmas and Easter? John begins the passion week at the end of chapter 11. The whole book is only 21 chapters,over half of that Gospel deals with it. It does not matter the date but the story, Christmas and Easter are the whole of Christianity. It is Jesus, not the Old Testament Law, that saves us. I am not a Jew. I believe in the Old Testament, I believe it is the inspired Word of God. I also believe in the New Testament, that it is the inspired Word of God. Have you read Galations? Read chapter 2 especially. Paul is confronting Peter for forcing Gentiles to follow Jewish customs. "14When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? 15"We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified." If you want to celebrate Jewish festivals, more power to you. But to suggest that it is sinful to celebrate the Coming of Christ and the Resurrection of Christ is way off base.

Those holidays were commanded to be celebrated by the nation of Israel of which i'm not a part. Not to say I can't learn from those celebrations, I have spent time with Jews For Jesus in Portland and they are neat celebrations. They also used them to point to Jesus birth and fulfillment of the law. Jesus birth is the fulfillment of over 300 predictions in the OT and ultimately the fulfillment of his name, the Lord saves. You know, the names of the days of the week are not Biblical, they are pagan. Are you up in arms about them? It sounds like you want to go back to the Jewish law that is outside the moral law.

The things we argue about!

I am not Jewish. I've NEVER been bound by Jewish Law. MOST of us aren't.....and we quite simply ARE NOT BIBLICALLY COMMANDED TO CONVERT TO JUDAISM, even if it IS a "Christ centered". When one looks at the fact that Christ came to fulfill the Law that Judaism was, Judaism itself (even Christ centered) is simply TRADITION......the holidays aren't "Biblical" (by definition, they CAN'T
be)....they're a traditional/cultural facet. The fact that they happen to appear in the
Bible doesn't negate that.



Somewhere, something seems to be getting lost in the translation of these "non-Biblical" holidays we celbrate.....The "roots" of the Holiday ARE NOT what is being celebrated. I'm not holding a solstice celebration, or a spring fertility rite. I'm fully aware of where the roots of our "modern" holidays are from.....but that's completey irrelevant to my purpose in celebrating them.

I'm celebrating the birth of my Savior (I hesitate to say Messiah....I was never bound by Jewish Law....) and his Ressurection. Perhaps it IS out of "simple tradition"....but it's NO MORE "simple tradition" than it would be for someone who was never bound by Jewish Law to celebrate the Holidays the Jews were commanded to.

I think we should scrap em' all in favor of "Festivis", see you at the pole!

There's nothing to get in such an uproar about. I am simply saying that if it was good enough for Jesus, why is it not good enough for us? Of course we know He celebrated those holidays. Yes, some are tradition, as they are with modern Christianity. I don't know why "law" keeps coming up. AGAIN, for at least the 3rd time, this have nothing to do with being lawful or not. However, Christ did not do away with the law. He fulfilled the law, and now it is to be on our HEARTS. So whenever someone throws "law" at this argument, I just shake my head because it's irrelevant. We celebrate as a memorial.

Just so you know, I grew up in the church. I attended Assemblies of God. They got a lot of things right, IMHO, but without the foundational understanding of the Jewish roots of the faith, you will not be 100% effective in your witness and understanding, and ultimately your walk. This is really my point.

exo wrote:

I am not Jewish. I've NEVER been bound by Jewish Law. MOST of us aren't.....and we quite simply ARE NOT BIBLICALLY COMMANDED TO CONVERT TO JUDAISM, even if it IS a "Christ centered". When one looks at the fact that Christ came to fulfill the Law that Judaism was, Judaism itself (even Christ centered) is simply TRADITION......the holidays aren't "Biblical" (by definition, they CAN'T be)....they're a traditional/cultural facet. The fact that they happen to appear in the Bible doesn't negate that. Somewhere, something seems to be getting lost in the translation of these "non-Biblical" holidays we celbrate.....The "roots" of the Holiday ARE NOT what is being celebrated. I'm not holding a solstice celebration, or a spring fertility rite. I'm fully aware of where the roots of our "modern" holidays are from.....but that's completey irrelevant to my purpose in celebrating them. I'm celebrating the birth of my Savior (I hesitate to say Messiah....I was never bound by Jewish Law....) and his Ressurection. Perhaps it IS out of "simple tradition"....but it's NO MORE "simple tradition" than it would be for someone who was never bound by Jewish Law to celebrate the Holidays the Jews were commanded to.

The uproar is because you make it seem as if the OT holidays are mandatory and that Christmas and Easter are bogus. Read your own posts and tell me that's not how it came across. Jesus also was part of the whole Jewish societal legal system, right up until he died and the curtain tore in two. Those societal laws were done away with and we now live in freedom of going directly to God not a priest.

I was wondering when an angel would swoop in on this thread!

I tried to stay out...mainly because I do so enjoy participating in the Jewish stuff and it most definitely has enriched my faith and opened doors of understanding about who Christ was and how awesome the Bible is, without a doubt...

I would encourage anyone who has even the slightest desire/curiousity to check it out, participate as much as you like, I don't think you'll be sorry.

BUT...Recognize this is still serious business to the observant Jew, whether they know Christ or not (in some cases) it is not trivial to them, have/show some respect and recognize you are not a Jew in the full sense of the word. Or, go ahead and join the tribe and be committed to fulfill *all* that is required for that covenant.

Dah This is pretty much what I am saying, except for the fact I'm recommending it instead of saying "eh, only if you feel like it." Or, I'm pushing it a little more than you in other words. Is is required? Nope.

Angel with Attitude wrote:

Quote: I don't know why "law" keeps coming up. AGAIN, for at least the 3rd time, this have nothing to do with being lawful or not. However, Christ did not do away with the law. He fulfilled the law, and now it is to be on our HEARTS. So whenever someone throws "law" at this argument, I just shake my head because it's irrelevant. We celebrate as a memorial. All of the above understanding is mainly because...you're a Gentile Maybe the point has been missed but the observant Jews are commanded by their law to celebrate these feasts. That may not be or rather is not the reason you and your congregation do so... I thought about making a point at one time or another to learn Hebrew and be bat mitzvah'd... that is to officially "join the tribe" as it were. I realized all the work and observance I would have to do to maintain and fulfill that. I realized I didn't have to because of my position in Christ. I fully enjoy those celebrations and glean the meaning behind them w/o having to become a Jew and approach the re-vamped 'pagan' holidays exactly the same way exo expressed that he does. Christ came to set us free, not to return us to the bondage of keeping the law which is different than obeying God from the heart. So, if you want to become a Jew, have at it. Respect!! I think it's a rich and wonderful experience and a different way of expressing devotion to the Lord. Still, those who are in Christ have no such obligation to the Law. It's very simple and clear. One thing we always have to be vigilant about in everything is balance.

[quote="Tall Tyrion"]

exo wrote:

If fact, the Scriptures say the exact opposite. There was a group of 1st century Christians known as the Judaizers who were trying to do just that, say that Christians had to convert to and follow Judaism in order to be a true follower of Jesus Christ. Read Acts 15 for the response of the Jewish apostles to that idea.

Check out the whole book of Galatians......

I guess what I am really pushing is for people not to be so defensive
about Christian traditions that may not give the full meaning of actual
biblical things. Sometimes I come in with guns blazin' so please forgive me.

Why am I pushing it? Because I want people to think for themselves and question what they believe in (regarding Christian traditions). Not to doubt their faith, but to make sure they know exactly what they are doing and that it makes sense and has meaning. I've tried to, and was careful, to make sure everyone knew that I was not saying this was supposed to be a law, nor am I even coming close to Judaism. If you found out that you could be doing something the biblical way instead of the traditional way, wouldn't you at least think to yourself, "Am I missing out on something here?"

Angel with Attitude wrote:

Quote: This is pretty much what I am saying, except for the fact I'm recommending it instead of saying "eh, only if you feel like it." Or, I'm pushing it a little more than you in other words. That could be accepted and understood ...except for the title of this thread and how you went on about putting down these other Christ-centered holidays, like they are lesser or something. Also, WHY are you pushing it??? That is the methodology of someone who wants to enact a law or decree... Maybe if you stood back a little and read my feedback, you might see where you came off as Judaizing to people who are rightfully taught to not accept such. Here's some food for thought: Romans 14 The Law Of Liberty NKJV vs 5 One person esteems a day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. vs 6 He who observes the day , observes it to the Lord and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat and gives God thanks. vs 7 For none of us lives to himself and no one dies to himself. vs 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.vs 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. vs 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Christ.