I'm not trying to ignite a useless debate. I want opinions. Maybe some
of you can direct me to scriptural references that support or refute my
conclusion.

My question is, do the teachings of Jesus coincide with the
conservative religious sentiments of our prominent Evangelicals, like
James Dobson? When I read the Sermon On The Mount, I do not see his
teachings fitting into the definition of evangelical conservatism. Would Jesus support free market economics, which can sometimes spiral into the Darwinian mode of survival, otherwise known as Social Darwinism? Would Jesus support starting a war without a justifiable cause, like we did in Iraq?

I got a call from a friend the other day who was engaged in a sort of debate on Facebook. There was someone asking him some very similar questions.

I'd say to keep a discussion like this on track, some more information on one point would be helpful.

Daveandstuff wrote:

do the teachings of Jesus coincide with the conservative religious sentiments of our prominent Evangelicals, like James Dobson?

Which specific sentiments are you referring to?

Quote:

Would Jesus support free market economics, which can sometimes spiral into the Darwinian mode of survival, otherwise known as Social Darwinism?

This is what reminded me of my friend's call. In the case of my friend, he was asked if Jesus' statement "What you've done for the least of these, my bretheren, you've done unto me", contradicts with Republican's or conservatives efforts to "block health care reform" or "deny welfare benefits", as though conservatives are running around looking for ways to hurt people while cackling evilly.

I told him he might apporoach the question in two ways. One is that "my
bretheran" is a specific referance to the Jewish people, not to people
at large. So if we ask ourselves which group of people in America are
supporters of Israel and the Jewish people, the answer is overwhelmingly
evangelicals. It's not even close.

But this was not really the question that my friend was being asked, not is it what I think you are asking (although a more specific question would be easier to answer).

If we confine ourselves strictly to the gosples, then Jesus had very little to say about economic systems. All of His teachings that you might be thinking of here refer to individual actions and responsibilities, not to governmental agencies.

When Jesus said "What you've done for the least of these", he was not picketing in front of Pilate's Jerusalem headquarters, demanding that more of the taxes being collected go towards social programs instead of an "unjustifiable war" against the Germanic people (which was going on at the time, I believe). He was speaking to His followers on a personal level, encouraging them to act as individuals to do good for the people who were being neglected by society.

And that is what they did. Look at any period of history and you will find Christians doing good to those society casts aside. Even today, my church (which is pretty small, about 25-30 people on Sunday morning), is supporting an entire orphanage in India, not to mention other ministries that feed the hungry, give medicine to the sick, support widows and orphans, both locally and abroad, and a whole host of other charitable actions.

Again, when you look at who is doing these things on an individual level, it is mostly conservatives and evangelicals. source

Jesus praised the giving of the widow woman, not because she gave a lot, but because she gave sacrificially. How many of us are giving sacrificially? How many people argue that they "don't have to give" and that tithing is an Old Testament concept that has no relevance for the Christian? I agree that a tenth of our income is not "required", but only because I think it is a minimum. Really, we as Chistians should be giving more than ten percent of our income. How many of us are?

Jesus words are a call to individual charity, not to governmental welfare, which is grossly inefficiant at best and actually harms a lot of the people it claims to be helping by keeping them trapped in a subsistance level life. Often, they are addicted to various substances that are also harmful to them, and a welfare check or food stamps do nothing to address those problems.

In fact, they might even contribute to them in some cases, as it is easier to justify buying drugs or cigarettes or alcohol if you know that basic needs like rent and food are going to be provided by the government. I see plenty of people who live this way every day.

Quote:

Would Jesus support starting a war without a justifiable cause, like we did in Iraq?

This question carries a heavy weight of assumption with it. I disagree with the premise, and I see no value in debating a skewed question.

_________________
“If you make less than $250,000 your taxes will not go up. Not one dime.” BH Obama

''Let me be clear: There is no military solution in Iraq and there never was. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year -- now,'' Candidate Obama in 2007

First, I think there is a difference between Evangelical conservatism and political conservatism (although people who are conservative one way usually are the other as well). Religious conservatism is based on a particular reading and interpretation of Scripture. I would need to know what statements don't seem to line up as well before offering an opinion.

I don't know what type of economic system Jesus would endorse. I've heard people say that Jesus was an anarchist because he came to disrupt the social order, but that isn't really shown in Scripture. He payed his taxes and spoke of obeying earthly leaders. We do see a communal model demonstrated in Acts, where the body of believers took care of their own. I do think he would be against the abuses of free market economics, but he would be against the abuses of any system. I also agree with some of what Tall Tyrion said about this. If we as the body of Christ were obedient to Christ's teachings on caring for the less fortunate, there would not be the level of need for governmental social programs.

Clearly, Jesus would be against starting an unjustified war. Whether Iraq is an unjustified is separate matter.

TT, I do have a question for you. Do you really think your reading of "my brethren" in that passage as pertaining only to Jews is accurate? If so, I would like to hear your reasoning, because to me that seems totally off.

I don't know how much you really know about Dr. Dobson, but as founder of Focus on the Family his priority and focus is just that: an emphasis and focus on biblical family values through his pro-family organization. Of course that is biblical because the ideas came from the Bible in the first place. I'd say Dr. Dobson is one of the kindest and most respectable men in America.

Remember Dr. Dobson is not a clergyman, he is not a preacher, he is not a televangelist, and he is not a politician. He gives marital and family advice, and he encourages us to take a stand against what I see as the war against the family by those who would redefine the traditional biblical marriage based 2 parent family as anything other then what God intended, because to those who see the biblical family as 'narrow and oppressive' it must be replaced with man's corrupt ideas.

Dr. Dobson has done a lot to fight the abuse and exploitation of children.

Jesus cared about them also.

Now as for economics, I don't see any reason Jesus would be opposed to freedom, and of course that includes economic freedom.

Just remember that Jesus assigned the task of helping the poor to the Church, NOT to the Government!

Peter stated in Acts that the property of the individual church members was theirs to do with as they pleased. God punished 2 of them for lying about their money, but it was clarified that had they been honest about it, the money was theirs to do with as they wished. This was made very clear in Acts.

They did share their property in Acts, which is allowable under a free economy.

Nowhere did the apostles conficate property or advocate government socialism.

A Christian voluntarily says what is mine is yours; a Communist says what is yours in mine! See the difference?

A Christian gives, a Communist takes.

Ok, just wondering.

What happened to Daveandstuff?

Didn't he ask the question?

Things such as you just described generally get discussed amongst the mods and admin staff, and this doesn't ring a bell. I'm afraid I don't have the SLIGHTEST clue hat your are referring to....

Went back and took a look at Catacombed threads (they are avaialble for EVERYONE'S perusal)...and your perceptions about the thread and why it was closed are waaaaaaay off.

If you re-read the thread, I think you will find that you actually got AGREEMENT from some staff members with your points, Dave.

When a thread deteriorates into 2 pages of back and forth sniping, yeah, we're gonna shut it down......but it had nothing to do with the original content or intent.

Your beef was with Acorn, Dave. He is not a staff member.

Here's the rule:

Quote:

Rule 4 Do not let arguments and heated discussions get out of hand. If the Admins and MODs feel that something is getting ridiculously out of hand, we'll ask that the matter be taken elsewhere (i.e. by email, chat, etc.) and the thread will be closed. If YOU feel that you are being unfairly treated, feel free to email or EZMail one of the administrators or moderators (listed below).

It is uniformly applied, no matter how much or how little a person has posted. Disagreements, even strenuous arguments, are fine. This is a discussion board, so feel free to discuss things, but pointless bickering will be shut down.

_________________
“If you make less than $250,000 your taxes will not go up. Not one dime.” BH Obama

''Let me be clear: There is no military solution in Iraq and there never was. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year -- now,'' Candidate Obama in 2007